Monitoring full screen HDV over firewire from camcorder

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Level 1

9 points

Monitoring full screen HDV over firewire from camcorder

Hello,

I am a recent switcher from Windows to Mac. One thing I haven't figured out how to do yet on my Mac is to simply use my MacBook Pro screen to monitor (in full screen) the HDV video that comes off the Firewire cable of my Sony camcorder.

On Windows XP, I used to use VLC for this. I posted a message a few weeks ago asking for help with this on my camcorder's forum:
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=13728
but haven't gotten any solution yet.

The thing is that the Mac version of VLC doesn't have the 'Open from Capture Device' feature that the Windows version does, and I haven't been able to figure out any other way with Final Cut or Quicktime on my new Mac to do this.

Again, I simply want to MONITOR full screen the HDV video that comes off my Sony camcorder's firewire. If I use the logging tool in Final Cut, I only get a small preview window (which I can't seem to get full screen). Same in Quicktime. Of course I can CAPTURE the tape to Final Cut and then playback full screen, but that is a step I'm hoping to avoid.

Do you Mac folks have any other tricks for doing this?

Thanks for the help!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on May 12, 2008 5:10 PM

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Answer 1

Red Door

Level 1

29 points

May 12, 2008 5:43 PM in response to Khoofoo

there is no way of doing what you describe that I know of.

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Answer 2

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

May 12, 2008 6:30 PM in response to Khoofoo

Connect the video out from the camera to an HDTV and use that to monitor while you use the firewire feed to capture.

x

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Answer 3

May 12, 2008 6:44 PM in response to Khoofoo

Take a look at BTV. http://www.bensoftware.com/

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Answer 4

Andy Mees

Level 6

12,610 points

May 13, 2008 2:22 AM in response to Thomas Emmerich

BTV certainly works great with DV over firewire, not sure it can be used for HDV though

there are certainly commercial apps for doing this eg Monitor Magic from Big Mug Software
http://www.bigmugsoftware.com/monitor/

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Answer 5

Khoofoo Author

Level 1

9 points

May 24, 2008 6:46 PM in response to Andy Mees

Thanks for all your replies, but I still haven't found a solution for this one:

@Red Door:
It looks as you might be right! Thanks for confirming what I've found to be true: this may not be possible on a Mac!

@Studio X:
Thanks for this idea. I already do this when I have a HDTV available. But the idea here is that I'd like to be able to use my laptop monitor for this when I'm on the road (and don't have an HDTV, or the HDMI cable, available). As I said, with my Windows laptop and VLC this was a great solution to monitor my HD camera when I'm on the road with just my laptop and camcorder. Its a shame I can't get my gorgeous new MacBook Pro with the beautiful almost-HD resolution monitor to do this!

@Thomas & Andy:
Thanks for these recommendations .. they almost worked! I tried both and neither quite did the job. BTV looks like a really old program (last release 2002?). It looked promising, but alas couldn't get it to recognize my HDV camcorder.
Monitor Magic looked even more promising, as it is a new piece of software specifically made for this purpose. Indeed, it did recognize my HDV camcorder no problem, but alas it still couldn't do the job. First, you can't monitor full screen! (That's my whole point.) Additionally, I didn't get any sound and also the video quality was really poor in the preview window. No way to deinterlace and lots of dropped frames. I got a better preview window out of Final Cut and Quicktime.

Anyway, thanks for your recommendations but my search continues! (At least until a better version of VLC for Mac comes out!)

I remain really surprised how hard this is to accomplish on a Mac! Macs have such a good reputation for video/media editing. Regardless, this was pretty tough to get working on my Windows laptop until I discovered VLC.

Thanks again!

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Answer 6

May 24, 2008 11:41 PM in response to Khoofoo

Don't MacBookPros have a composite out that connects to the MiniDVI connector? Can't you just connect that up and use Digital Cinema Desktop?

Patrick

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Answer 7

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

May 25, 2008 12:40 AM in response to Khoofoo

IT can be done...absolutely it can be done. You cannot CAPTURE at the same time, but you can certainly use your laptop as a monitor for the HDV camera on location.

www.veescopelive.com
www.scopebox.com

Shane

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Answer 8

May 25, 2008 10:39 AM in response to Khoofoo

Are you just trying to look at your video as you play it back (over firewire)? Or do you want to be able to capture it and see it in a larger screen while running FCP?

I can monitor (even capture to Hard Drive) in Quicktime by connecting my camera (HVR-V1U) or deck (GV-HD700), and selecting "new movie recording". QT may take a bit to find the camera on firewire, and it needs to be playing a tape or the camera needs to be sending a picture. Then QT switches to a large 1920x1080 screen and shows the video as it plays; if you move the volume slider up, you can hear the video as well.

Note: if you have "enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility" checked in QT preferences, the recorded movie will play back much darker than it shows in the preview screen (it is read a 2.2 gamma and played at 1.8 gamma); but the movie is captured just like FCP would. You can set the capture location in preferences (recording) as well. If you want to view the recorded move as it previews, uncheck that option. It is captured the same regardless. How it shows up also depends on how your screen is calibrated (Mac 1.8 gamma or PC/TV 2.2 gamma).

Anyway, this is a way to view and capture HDV over firewire and view in native resolution with audio coming from the Mac speakers.

Note 2: there is a delay from what you see on your camera LCD monitor and what shows up on the Mac screen: HDV does take time to decode. If you want absolutely real time monitoring, you need to use the video outputs of the camera (the analog component ones or digital HDMI) and a capture device for your Mac.

Eddie O

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Answer 9

May 25, 2008 11:37 AM in response to Khoofoo

if by full screen u mean viewing 1920x1080 the answer is (as ive recently found out)you cant, u will only get 1440x1080. You need a capture card such as the blackmagic or kona through hdmi or component or something similar. Then you get Full HDV.. (not sure if u meant that though!)

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Answer 10

May 25, 2008 12:01 PM in response to StingRay67

Well, HDV is actually 1440x1080 but the pixels are stretched to display at 1920x1080. So "full HDV" would actually be 1440x1080. I think the Blackmagic or Kona cards are using a different codec capable of 1920x1080 output but you're not getting any extra detail because the footage is only 1440x1080.

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Answer 11

May 25, 2008 12:15 PM in response to StingRay67

Quicktime stretches the 1440x1080 to 1920x1080; it captures using the HDV codec which is 1440x1080; if you want actual HD, you do need a capture card of sort, or a firewire camera which does 720p (which as I recall is really 720x960 stretched to 720x1280). I shoot in 1080p30 in HDV.

That said, if the OP is shooting in HDV to tape, then he only get 1440x1080 in any case; if he is capturing via Firewire (whether in real time or off tape, or just for monitoring), you get 1440x1080 because that's the spec; But QT does show the correct aspect ratio just like FCP, iMovie, etc. with Firewire monitoring and capture.

Note, by the way, that iMovie (at least the older iMovieHD version) can also monitor off the camera just like QT, but it captures in AIC. I've not used iMovie'08 much for anything (since I don't like its new event based interface, but that's just me), so I can't write anything about its capabilities in this area.

Eddie O

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Answer 12

May 25, 2008 12:24 PM in response to Jon Chappell

It all depends on how you use the BlackMagic Intensity, for instance (doesn't apply to the OP MacBook anyway):

It you capture via HDMI from tape, the camera does the stretching and conversion to 4:2:2 color space. No additional information is added, however. If you do that, you might as well capture via firewire to ProRes 422, it should look the same.

If you capture LIVE (not from tape) directly to your computer from HDMI using the Intensity, you will get full 1920x1080 with 4:2:2 color space with NO compression artifacts from HDV. It can capture and transcode in real time to ProRes 422, so it's pretty cool for that purpose. Also, the audio is PCM rather than compressed audio as well.(*)

But I have no idea how the Mac monitors all of that in either Quicktime or FCP; maybe the same as with Firewire. Intensity users?

But the OP wanted to use Firewire to monitor on his MacBook, and for that, 1440x1080 is all you get.

Eddie O

(*) Uncompressed HDMI capture depends on the camera, of course. My Sony V1U is capable of putting out HDMI "live" at 1920x1080 4:2:2, for example.

Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates

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Answer 13

Khoofoo Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 20, 2008 11:02 PM in response to Edward A. Oates

How did you get Quicktime to switch to the large 1920x1080 screen? When I do these steps exactly I just get a small preview window.

I still have not yet stumbled upon a simple solution to this question yet. 😟

Will I have to reboot in BootCamp to Windows to use VLC? (yack)

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Answer 14

Khoofoo Author

Level 1

9 points

Sep 20, 2008 6:03 PM in response to Khoofoo

I still haven't found a perfect solution to this problem ...

I noticed that the new version of VLC (0.9.2) that came out the other day now has a 'Open Capture Device' option in the Mac version ... but as far as I can tell there is no way to get this option to see my firewire HDV camcorder. The only options is see are "iSight camera, Screen, and EyeTV". Unless I am missing something?

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