Another thread about a Core audio system overload!

I've had similar issues. I got much help by upgrading the M-Audio drivers to 6.9.

Logic also seems to have interesting ways it loads and unloads instruments, which is useful to explore when all instruments are not playing at the same time. In my experience, for example, if I can start the SPL at some distance beyond the end of one or more instruments, the other instruments will play without getting the overload message. But if I start it earlier, even if it is still after the previous instruments have ended, it will give the overload message. While not exact, it has been very helpful to me to play around with finding the best place to position the SPL because I use a large number of instruments and tracks.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can comment on this.

For John Sherlock: unfortunately the Legacy (which I own) is very heavy on CPU, especially if you use the Legacy Cell and or the effects.
Try to lower the polyphony of the plugs, try to lower the unison voices, try simpler patches if you can, try to raise your audio card latency.
Single processors are not the best choice for heavy plugs like these, unless you use the freeze 😟
I agree that Logic is not optimized to work in "busy" situations like these, with powerful virtual instruments. And I have a G5 2x2...

I was being driven crazy by core audio errors last month. I had switched from pc and cubase to get this system stability that I had heard so much about. It was very frustrating.

Like you, I use a ton of soft synths and effects on many channels. I figure what is the point of going with the new G5 power mac with 4 gigs of ram if I am not going to push it a little.

What I noticed was that my errors came exactly at the same moment each time I replayed the song. From that I decided just to tear the song apart to find out if I could find the cause.

I deleted tracks and it still happened. I froze tracks and would get the error while trying to freeze. I messed with all the program preferences I could find that I thought might do anything. Nothing helped.

Then I started removing effects. I use several instances of many of the plugins on different tracks at the same time. I started by taking out all instances of space designer. Played back and crashed at the same point. One at a time, I removed all instances of other plugins. Still no joy. Suddenly when I removed camelspace (third party effect) from the song, everything played smoothly. I put all the other effects that I had used back in and it played with no error. I contacted camelaudio and they supplied an update that solved the problem completely.

I have no idea if your problems are being caused by something similar, but if your errors are at the same time each playback, I would try my method starting with removing effects and see if that makes a difference.

Hope that helps.

Shane:

Your post is a great example of methodically eliminating possible culprits one-by-one, and solving your problem. Hopefully the other users in this thread will try the same approach.

Your post is a great example of methodically eliminating possible culprits one-by-one, and solving your problem. Hopefully the other users in this thread will try the same approach.

Good point... But (there's that 'but' again). I sometimes have sessions with NO 3rd party plugs and get overload errors. One processor running far higher than the other. Sometimes it happens, sometimes (after running for a while) it does. Could I go through and remove all plugs, see what it is and 'not use it'? Sure, but cummon... I paid for a Dual G5 and a pro application.

I want them to work. Not for me to have to spend all day going through native plugs to figure out problems.

Don't get me wrong, I love Logic (user since version 4), but I really think something is stuck in the gears here, and Apple should work it out.

I sometimes have sessions with NO 3rd party plugs

Timothy:

I agree with you completely. My point was to at least test methodically first.

Looking through the forum threads, there are far too many complaints about core overload/memory/CPU load issues to be a coincidence - there's clearly something wrong, but first all the routine stuff has to be elimidated.

I just wish I knew more about Logic's memory management and task/CPU allocation, 'cuz something's fishyÉ

Also can i also say that i am very frustrated with being stonewalled by the logic and apple guys at the mention of this sort of problem. It is not unreasonable to expect a G5 1.6 single processor to run logic and four or five synth plugins is it?

this info is out there and is openly discussed by everyone. plus, you should really read and take in what it says on the system requirements info for the korg legacy.

when you say that it should be reasonable to get four or five synths out of an imac G5 1.6, you really are asking how long is a piece of string.. some software synths are small, simple code, others are monstrously complex and demand a lot of CPU power. bear in mind that apple have nothing to do with the korg legacy collection, so it's not really fair to take their advice on what should run on your machine and apply it to a notoriously hardcore 3rd party plug in. it is totally realistic to expect many more than 5 instruments, tens of audio tracks and a big handful of plug ins on your machine - it just depends on which ones you want to use..

it comes down to research.. if you had asked anyone (for example, here) about what you could expect with running the korg legacy on that model G5, you would have come away with more refined expectations. I for one would have told you that even on a dual G5, I've seen a single processor shoot up into the red from playing one single instance of the legacy cell instrument. plus, if you look at the system requirements for the korg legacy, it even tells you that certain included instruments require at least a G4 1.25 to play at all. when you extrapolate that across to your 1.6 G5, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise to see that running such an intensive synth won't leave you much headroom for running anything else at the same time.

still this is not to say you can't get useful time out of the legacy on your machine - that's what freeze tracks is for.

I totally understand where you are coming from. The thing is though that i have also seen the Korg legacy collection be used on a G4 with not much trouble, and i did look at the system requirements before purchasing and as a long time member of the Logic user group, asked a lot of questions about its cpu usage, which threw up more or less the same results: its a bit hit and miss, on some systems it works and on others it doesnt!
The reason i get frustrated with Logic is that there should be some sort of co-operation with users who have difficulties as they know that Logic will be used with the latest top of the line plugins.
I also feel know after redaing some of the comments yesterday that it may be a problem other than not enough RAM or a big enough system.
Last night i went in to systyem performance and did an experiment:
I installed about 15 tracks, 4 audio, the rest instruments including all of the legacy collection, real guitar, ES1, EXS and a host of plug ins. All was fine untill i added the Legacy synth from the Legacy collection; when i did this the cpu usage went through the roof!! When bypassed it imediately dropped. I evn used two tracks and just one instance of the Legacy and it swallowed up nearly three quaters of my cpu power!!
The i/o meter shows near to no signal at all times.
Obviously i am going to get in touch with Korg to see what they say but do you think this could be a problem from within logic?? I read yesterday about a 'glitch' when the i/o meter shows nothing and the audio one is through the roof.
Thanks for your comments and advice man.

Yes, yes, yes!!

I realised last night (by a process of trial and bypass) that the legacy is the culprit here. I cant use one ionstance of it in a track as it eats the cpu. All th other legacy synths are fine. Do you think this could be a software problem as the level meter in sys. perform. is constantly high even when using two audio tracks and the Legacy? It is such a shame as it is a brilliant and costly instrument that should be used..and especially since my system and yours meet the Operating requirements

All was fine untill i added the Legacy synth from the Legacy collection; when i did this the cpu usage went through the roof!! When bypassed it imediately dropped. I evn used two tracks and just one instance of the Legacy and it swallowed up nearly three quaters of my cpu power!!

it doesn't sound like you're really understanding how CPU usage works.

there's nothing wrong with your CPU meter, there is no "incompatibility" problem with logic and korg legacy. the simple fact is that all software synths and plug ins are effectively programs that have to be executed in realtime by the CPU. some are simpler than others and therefore allow many instances, high polyphony before your CPU meter starts climbing. others are very very complex and take up a great deal of your CPU. it is totally normal for a korg legacy instrument to use up 3 quarters of the CPU power of your single processor G5. the legacy cell instrument for example is a massive CPU hog, it just uses up a lot of power and that's how it is... that's the tradeoff for the high quality sounds it makes, so you'll have to get used to freezing tracks.

meet the Operating requirements

Hate to nit-pick, but there aren't any - I can bring my system down to its knees with just a very few Sculpture and Space designer instances.

I still use my DAWs like I used to use analog 24 track Studers and 3 ton mixing consoles. I schedule tracking, dubbing, mixing and mastering into four distinct tasks. They all have different requirements, and I religiously keep them separated. So until I get ready to mix, I minimize effects and complexities and freeze tracks constantly if I HAVE to use a particular sound. Similarly I don't think about mastering (and its tools) until I have tracks finally mixed.

I am by no means an expert in this, nor did I stay at a holiday inn express last night...

But, if you have a project (without 3rd party plugs) that is giving you core audio errors which you are willing to share, I would be interested to see if it locks up on my system as well.

Unfortunately, even if it runs smoothly, it will still leave many questions.

Does your project need a more powerful computer or more ram?
Does it need you to upgrade to 10.4.2?
Do your core audio issues have anything to do with the UAD cards or the RME FireFace?

About the only question it would answer is if the logic application itself is or is not at fault. However, being that most (including myself) seem to instinctively blame the daw when it crashes; that doesn't seem like such a bad question to know the answer to.

If you don't have the patience to learn the app, get a producer in - it'll cost a lot more money than you've spent already and is generally not repeatable. Be patient! Learn it. The best suggestion is to plan your project and split it into stages as someone else suggested. Of course, if you like like to compose/mix/produce 'on the fly', you will get problems.
I personally think Apple know little about the ins and outs of Logic.
Dr Lengeling is your best bet if you can find him. (He's probably on a beach somewhere counting his cash from Emagic's sale.)
With my old breast I can get 64 stereo 24bit / 44.1 files of average pop tune length (3mins) easily, but I have to plan the song, first as a midi only file, then onto the EXS24's, etc. If your compositions have good architecture, they should be listenable in a basic state.
I get similar error messages, and mainly ignore them. Just work thru 'em. If the app stops, just restart, no problem. If you're using Logic for clients who actually pay you money, then down time can be an issue. Back in the good ole anal-dog daze, breakdowns occured also, and could take days to fix and be expensive.
Planning is always needed in studios as time is expensive. The 'studio-in-a box" is no exception.
Most of us would like this fantasy: A Mac G10(10gHzOctalProcessor-that's 8 of 'em), running OSX.9.9.9.9.,
(nick named "cat's meow"), 1 tera ram, FW5000 drives spinning at 30.000rpm, with in built Apogee 32bit 16x i/o. as a basic unit.
Sorry, a fanasty it will stay, for a very long time.

I'm not that familiar with fxpansions guru but their bfd is a processor and memory hog. try some other plugs and watch you cpu meters. try each of your plug ins one at a time and see how you computer reacts and see how far you can push it. if I remember correctly just muting a track will remove its load on the cpu. there is a remote possibilty that there is a hardware issue with your computer but more than likely I agree with most that you could just be overloading the system. wish I could be of more help but my system is bigger than yours and I don't have these issues.

ej