User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Duplicate 'invisible' photos are being created when I download from camera

Hi all,

Recently spotted a weird thing happening when I download images from my Nikon D200. I use Image Capture, but not sure if that's the problem. Hopefully you guys can help.

Basically, when burning a DVD of images for a friend, I noticed that if I dragged over the folder that contained the downloaded images, a new disc was created in Toast, and the disc size matched the size of the folder as seen in the Finder. However, if I created a blank disc and just copied over the folder contents themselves, not the actual folder, the disc size was 1.5GB smaller.

???

So, I fired up TinkerTool and turned on Invisible Files in the Finder, and was shocked to discover that throughout my hard drive, in the folders I download photos into from my camera there are duplicate invisible 'photos' with a period at the start of their name (rendering them invisible) that are the size of a full high res photo each - essentially doubling the size of the folder. If I delete a photo in the Finder, it's invisible counterpart doesn't get deleted with it - so what the heck are they? They're taking up GB upon GB upon GB of space on my drive and I can't even see them unless I use TinkerTool.

iMac 24" 2.4GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.3)

Posted on Jun 11, 2008 4:32 AM

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28 replies
User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 4:58 AM in response to owen-b

Me again. I've done a test which I think proves that Image Capture is causing this problem - at least, my copy seems to be!

I took three JPGs on my camera. I set up three folders on my hard drive - one to download into from Image Capture, one to download into from Photo Mechanic (which rocks, by the way - if you don't have it, get it!) and one to download to manually by dragging the images from the mounted memory card.

Image Capture - three JPGs and three 'invisible' files - double the space taken up on the hard drive: 21.2MB

Photo Mechanic - three JPGs and a .pmingest.dat file (32KB): 10.6MB

Manually - three JPGs: 10.5MB

I believe this conclusively proves that Image Capture is creating duplicate invisible files that are the same size as the visible JPG, doubling the space that's taken up on the hard drive, and for no apparent reason as other perfectly legitimate methods of image download do not do the same thing.

So if my camera creates a photo called OWN_1234.JPG, Image Capture will download:

OWN_1234.JPG
.OWN 1234.JPG

The second file is the exact same size as the first, but cannot be seen. If I delete the first, the second does NOT go with it.

What's going on here, Apple?!
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 6:18 AM in response to i.3d

Hiya,

given what I've discovered about where this invisible and apparently unnecessary duplicate file is coming from, I'm not sure how relevant those questions are but here goes:

- I'm checking the folder size using the Finder's 'Get Info' on the folder icon. This size tallies in Toast if I drag the folder icon to Toast to create a new disc (as that drags all the contents of the folder over, invisible files and all). If I copy over just the visible files to a new folder, that new folder reflects a smaller size, which is similarly reflected in Toast if I move the actual visible photos into a new disc, as opposed to the original folder containing the invisible stuff as well.

- I don't want to open the file - it's a duplicate of one that already exists. However, if I remove the period and the underscore, yes, the file opens just fine as a JPG in Preview.

- It's a Nikon D200, a very popular Digital SLR - I can't imagine there's a conflict with Image Capture.

- I don't know why I'd want to use iPhoto for anything here? I'm not trying to open the files, and Toast has no problem burning them. The problem here is why have I got 15GB of invisible and completely unnecessary files on my computer that other methods of download from the camera do not create?

Cheers though!
Owen
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 6:20 AM in response to owen-b

Think I've worked out why Image Capture creates the invisible file. If I turn off 'Embed Color Profile' in Image Capture and download, there's no invisible files created. My camera already embeds a colour profile in my JPGs so I don't need that option turned on. I don't know why having it on creates the invisible files, though.

Either way, I'm turning it off!
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User profile for user: i.3d
i.3d
User level: Level 2
420 points

Jun 11, 2008 6:28 AM in response to owen-b

I ask those questions because I'm trying to help. If you find it annoying, then ignore them.

I suggested iPhoto as another means of downloading images - sorry!

Glad you've worked it out.
So in the end it turns out there's some logic to that madness.
I use capture on a daily basis with canon DSLRs and I've not seen any size blowouts. Maybe canon and nikon have different ways of embedding the colour profiles, or maybe it has to do with the computer set-up.
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 6:33 AM in response to i.3d

Sorry dude, wrong tone of voice implied in my reply - it's not annoying, I just wasn't sure of the relevance to working out what the invisible files were and where they came from. Mind you at that stage I was a bit further ahead in my investigation than my original post and had forgotten that I hadn't updated!

Ah - I didn't realise you meant iPhoto as a download option. I tend never to use iPhoto at all anyway as I prefer to keep tight control over where my photos are on my hard drive. I don't like how iPhoto essentially duplicates them into it's own library. I know you can turn that feature off but I just don't like iPhoto in general except for making photobooks, so I'd not considered it as an option.

Do you use Leopard, out of interest? Also, do you have 'Embed Color Profile' turned on in Image Capture? Have you actually looked at your folders with TinkerTool to see if there are any invisible files in there?

I've got it solved as far as I can see now, so I'm not going to tempt fate by investigating further, but would be curious to know if anyone else is seeing this going on or can explain why it happened.

Cheers,
Owen
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 6:42 AM in response to i.3d

My screen profile is set up using a Spyder. To be honest with you I don't get colour profiles.

If I shoot sRGB then what am I looking at when I load it up on a Spyder-profiled screen? A Spyder-profiled version of an sRGB image? A regular sRGB image? Or a Spyder-profile image?

Or are screen profiles and image colour profiles two completely different things?

I tried your suggestion. I set Image Capture to embed a Camera RGB profile and downloaded some images. Then I adjusted the names of the invisible images so I could open them. Side by side, the invisible image has the tiniest bit more detail in the shadows - almost imperceptible. The colour profile of the invisible image is sRGB (which is what is set on the camera), while the regular file, the one I would have been working with because it's the only one I could see, has a Camera RGB profile.

So Image Capture is downloading the original from the camera and making it invisible, then duplicating it and embedding a profile into it.

I think I'd rather have the one from the camera, the none-tampered with one. I'm turning off 'Embed Profile' - unless you think that would be unwise?
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User profile for user: Yer_Man
Yer_Man
User level: Level 10
165,978 points

Jun 11, 2008 7:40 AM in response to owen-b

Owen

My guess is that these are temporary files that Image Capture is creating while copying/embedding the profile and not cleaning up after itself properly.

I've done a test import here and find no such problem, so it may be a glitch on your machine for some reason.

Create a new account and see if the problem is repeated there.

Regards

TD
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 11, 2008 7:54 AM in response to Yer_Man

Terence,

I just created a new User account, logged into it and downloaded some photos into two folders, the same three JPGs per folder.

First folder I made sure 'Embed Color Profile' was turned off. Second folder I had the feature turned on.

The first folder was half the size of the second folder - problem still exists. Is there a way of setting up a new User account completely cleanly so that an error in the Image Capture or System software is not duplicated into a new account?
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User profile for user: i.3d
i.3d
User level: Level 2
420 points

Jun 11, 2008 3:41 PM in response to owen-b

I am not a software engineer, but I doubt if these are left over temp files.
More than likely, capture keeps both - the original and the colour managed files. Why hidden, no idea. Maybe it's the camera telling it to do so, maybe some software can "see" both depending on the colour profile selected. Maybe, indeed it's a bug in the software. The best way to find out is to send a bug report and Apple will answer.
If you are using the Spyder you should not colour manage the images at all.
the only profile you should use it the Spyder one.
Colour profile is basically a "translator" of RGB colour values, which displays (and prints) the images with a specific "colour shift".
Each time you acquire an image there is an error built in into the image (no device is perfect), then when displayed on a screen, this screen will introduce another colour shift, then the printer will shift the colours again, and you may end up with wrong colours in the output; and that's where the calibration and colour profiling comes in.
Spyder will scan your screen and adjust it so that the colours are as true as possible. If will not fix any of the camera problems, but at least on a screen you get exactly the colours that the camera took.
(Calibrating a camera is normally not needed, but it can be done too.)
Now, if your screen in Spyder'ed (?) then any software you use to edit the shots in should be set to use the Spyder colour profile, otherwise, you'll not see the true representation of your colours.
When it comes to printing... don't even get me started 🙂 Most commercial printing joints will supply you with their machine's profile, for home printers - trawl the Internet for the profiles or spend A LOT of money on print calibration.

I did check and I have no hidden files, I do not ask Capture to colour manage my shots.
I also never shoot JPEGs, RAW only. Later if I know I don't want an image for editing, but want to keep it, I dump it to a JPG and delete the RAW.
A silly question here, why not use the Nikon's provided software to download the pix?

Hope that helps a little.

You can check my recent work here:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/braincandy


cheers
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User profile for user: Sven Becker
Sven Becker
User level: Level 1
0 points

Jun 22, 2008 11:45 AM in response to i.3d

I can confirm the fact, that invisible files are produced when downloading pictures from the SD-Card of my camera with Image Capture. My camera is a very easy "Canon Digital Ixus 65" and I am downloading the pictures through a card reader. It needed some time until I realized the waste of space on my harddisk. The problem definitively exists since Mac OS X 10.5, I used the same preferences (including embedding the color profile) under 10.4.x without getting these invisible files. It is reproducable in the manner discribed above.

I cannot believe in individual cases, I think more users do have this problem and they do not know about it, because today's harddisks are big enough to conceal this bug. There are so many smaller and bigger bugs in 10.5.x, that I am not surprised about an error like this. Maybe too many developers where working on the iPhone and the apprentices had to make 10.5 😟
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User profile for user: owen-b
owen-b Author
User level: Level 1
9 points

Jun 23, 2008 2:01 AM in response to i.3d

I've registered it with Apple as a bug via their online feedback form - have yet to receive a response. Very odd that you can't recreate it - hopefully they'll get back in touch with me and request any further details they require, because it seems to me to be a definite bug if other people aren't able to recreate it.

Are you using a tool to show hidden files in a folder you've just downloaded images to? What kind of camera do you use? What colour profile does it shoot in? What kind of card are you downloading from? What version of Leopard are you using? What do you have 'Embed Color Profile' set to in Image Capture when you test the bug?
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Duplicate 'invisible' photos are being created when I download from camera

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