Capturing 24p from Canon xl2 help please

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Level 3

538 points

Capturing 24p from Canon xl2 help please

Hi everyone, just looking for some help here. I should have known better abotu all this 24p stuff but want to make sure I get it right. K, I shot some footage on my XL2 at 24p and 2:3. Isn't 2:3:3:2 or Advanced mode only for if you shoot something that you are going to transfer to film. If you weren't to transfer would it have any benefits in the digital world???
Anyways, as for me, I just shot 24p standard. I capture as just DV NTSC 48 KHZ. However, I never thought of going through the easy setup and saw there was a 24p setting. However doesn't that one still just capture at 29.97. Anyways, so my timeline is set at 29.97, is this right or should it be at 24/23.98.

Also, can anyone tell me if a guy should ever play around with the feild dominance stuff. I have never but was just wondering if someone can shed a bit of light on that. Thanks.

Nathan

iMac 2.4 GHz 24" 4 gig RAM 500 Gig HD, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 16, 2008 5:33 PM

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Answer 1

Aug 17, 2008 5:09 AM in response to Nathan Gogol

I've written about this before and you'll find many other posts here with a search on this subject.

I avoid shooting 24p (3:2 cadence) if I can.

24p (3:2 cadence) is sometimes referred to as a "film look" in the camera manuals. But that is if you agree that a "film look" is "what a film should look like on TV after it was telecined". AND will only get that 'look' if you SHOOT then PLAY. Once you SHOOT then EDIT then PLAY you are destroying the 'film look' cadence and now you have a potential mess to your eyes... not really... but potential. Prior to 10/15 years ago all film-shot TVshows looked like this. TV show... shot on film... film telecined to video... video edited. Cadence was a mess. BUT since NLEs came around that could edit in 24fps the telecine process happened at the END of the edit and the cadence was smooth.

SO...

Although 24p (3:2 cadence) is a more stable capturing platform, I choose 24pA (2:3:3:2 cadence) because I have 3 options directly with the 24fps... Film/Web/DVD and a 4th to telecine it at the end to go to 30fps.

24p (3:2 cadence) is harder to remove after capture to edit in 24fps. 24pA (2:3:3:2 (I'm stopping this now - you get the picture)) is easier. You can remove ON capture or AFTER capture... just make sure you REMOVE it because THIS WILL look ugly to your eyes when played straight from SHOOT to PLAY.

BOTH cadences must (MUST!!!!!!) be captured at 29.97 however this is where the confusion comes. Although your goal is to edit it in 23.98 you cannot use a capture preset that is 23.98. You must use 29.97 with the added "remove advance pulldown". THIS will get it to 23.98 and then you can select a SEQUENCE that is 23.98 and edit away.

If you shot 24p then you must (MUST) just capture at 29.97 with NO pulldown removal. You can remove it in Cinema Tools... but again, much harder for you today.

SO... now that you've edited in 24fps... export to the web and watch your 'film' in 24 stills per second... export to DVD and let the DVDplayer add a cadence based on the TV it's hooked up to... or send it off for film transfer... or lay it back to tape letting FCP add a smooth pulldown cadence... either 3:2 for broadcast... or even 2:3:3:2 for archive - where you can lay it off to tape with the 24pA cadence for later re-capture back in the original 23.98.

Don't let it all confuse you. It's really very easy.

CaptM

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Answer 2

Nathan Gogol Author

Level 3

538 points

Aug 17, 2008 9:20 AM in response to Captain Mench

Hi, well let me thank you for all your advice, I am grateful that you responded as I seen lots of views but no responses. So here's where I am at, I captured at normal dv NTSC so it was at 29.97. However, since I shot 24p (2:3) you say I need to apply a pull down. Can this be done in Final cut or does it have to be in Cinema tools. I have never used cinema tools actually. If say I do do a pulldown, I have to change my sequence/timeline to 24fps or is it 23.98??
Also, since it seems 24pA is easier, if I have a timeline with this footage at 24p and then shoot more but decide to use 24pA, can they be in the same timeline or is this more confusion and headache then I need. Thanks again, looking forward to hearing from you.

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Answer 3

Aug 17, 2008 11:34 AM in response to Nathan Gogol

24p (3:2) already HAS a pulldown on it. Pulldown refers to the process of adding frames by pulling down half the field of one frame and other half of fields from the next frame adding a NEW frame. So, just to keep you straight... you need to REMOVE the pulldown, cadence or pulldown cadence (all the same.)

WARNING... 1) don't attempt if you are short of time 2) have the fear of failing 3) don't have your original material 4) don't have a FULL case of beer 5) NEED this project done right! 6) any number of things I forgot!!

SO... if you've already edited some of this there is no good way to convert what is already edited into a 23.98 sequence. So you'd have to start again.

IF you choose to proceed...

Copy and duplicate all of the material you captured just incase you mess something up.

Open Cinema Tools
Cancel out of the first (database) dialog box
File - Open... first clip

This will open a box with your video in it. Toggle thru the video. You'll see PPCCP (progressive/combined (combined frames will look interlaced)) for every 5 frames. The first C-frame is the BC combination of fields. You'll need to park your playhead on the first of the two C-frames in a group. Then, when you reverse telecine you'll mark the BC option and hit go.

Try it once and see if it works for you. You'll get the new movie open and as you frame thru each frame you shouldn't see any C-frames... they will all be progressive.

Now... open a new FCP project and import those reverse-telecined clips and start editing in 23.98 timeline/sequence.

If you ran into a problem, just duplicate the original clip back again and try again. I may have missed an important step... doing it off the top of my head.

As for shooting 24pA now... well... as I stated before... this can be less stable. The cadence is harder to add for the camera and any ANY oddity in shooting will throw off the cadence and give you a HUGE headache trying to capture it.

Don't EVER turn off your camera while recording

Don't EVER review your material and then continue shooting

Don't EVER change any setup on your camera at ANY time that might switch it to 24p even for a second

Don't EVER take the tape out.

That said you shouldn't have any problems!! Use the DV/NTSC 2:3:3:2 Cadence Removal preset for capture and your clips will indeed be 23.98 in the browser.

Good luck... don't panic.

CaptM

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