Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

tfouto wrote:

The screen dont flicker at 60hz like white, black at 60hz. It just refreshs the white 60 times per second... the same color...

The screen doesn't go balck and white, but individual pixels go chaotically from bright to dimm. This is what I understand.

tfouto wrote:

To me flux, does a world of wonders. The more red the screen the better...

Yet it doesn't solve your problem, right?

Yes it solve, 100%. For a certain level of redness on the screen my eye pain disappears totally...

And for how long can you use it with a red screen? The maximum number of hours a day.

All day. i guess, or almost. I never try that. I might have soreness, but that it's the same for every monitor. It's not healthy to look all day to a tv or monitor. The eye need's rest.

Than you don't really have that much of a problem. How is it with normal colors without flux? How long can you use it? Is it the same with every monitor?

My monitor, i get eyes problems with white screens in minutes... 2, 3...

It's not the same with different monitors of course. New LED's tend to be worst... It varies...

Okay, why then are you the only one who says reducing blue solved his problem completely, and why have you never mentioned it before? It seems like such an important thing to mention.

i said before... It's you who keep minimizing and saying blue it's not a issue. It's over hyped.

A monitor should be like a book. Reading a book for the whole day does not cause eye irritation, at least for most people.

I can use my PWM free monitors 24h without any irritation. It's like reading a book or watching television.

So I do not agree that if f-lux enables you to use the monitor for some hours, but your eyes still get irritated, that the problem would not be PWM.

Try a monitor that is confirmed problem free without f.lux and you'll see.

HP ZR2740w for example, or maybe some of the Eizo's.

Yeah. A monitor should be like a book.

I say blue light can be a factor, but not the main problem. Reducing blue just reduces a bit light stress for you to be more comfortable, but it doesn't sound like you are really 100% comfortable with your monitors.

What I have tried to point out several times in this thread, but people always take it the wrong way and respond with hostility:

Flicker, be it dithering or PWM is a clear problem for many people. It can be fixed by just removing the flicker. Many manufacturers are already aware of this and they are producing displays that do not flicker. But some manufacturers still use PWM of 240-8000 Hz, which causes problems.

But if this flicker problems is confused to some other problem and if this problems is confused to something like "these people get eplileptic seizures from strobo lights, cannot tolerate car tail lights, are generally light sensitive or cannot tolerate blue light" -kind of thing, then no manufacturer will take this problems seriously. Some people do get migraines from a flashing camp fire or similar.

But this problem is entirely something else, which can be fixed by just removing the flicker.

I know it is troublesome to get headaches from camp fires or to not tolerate LED car tail lights. I do not belittle that problem. What I'm saying that my guess (unfortunately no facts) is that most people that get eye strain from displays would not get if the displays would not flicker. These same people most often do not suffer the camp fire migraines and can tolerate car tail lights.

I have contatect Microsoft to try to get my point across that they would ensure that the coming Surface Pro 3 would not have a flickering display, but because this problem is too often thought "yeah, these peole who get migraines from camp fires... we are not going to change the profitable display technology for a couple of people that have unusual prolbems"

You see my point? I'm not trying to be impolite. I do think that the flicker problem is wide spread, but most people dismiss it as using computers too much, or poor eyesight or sleeping poorly or similar, they do not even realize that the dry irritated eyes they keep eye dropping, could be remedied by manufacturers just removing flicker. And most of these people do not get migraines, they just get irritated eyes from the flicker.

I am sorry but the monitor is not like a book. There is direct light to your eyes. Not like a book, which is indirectly light, reflective surface and light.

Agreed, not like a book as such. That was not my point. My poin was that one should be able to read/use a monitor as comfortably as a book, which in my case is true with the monitors that do not flicker.

So saying that after long use a monitor causes moderate eye strain is not how it should be, if you do not get eye strain reading a book.

Of course, if your eyes get irritated reading a book, then there probably is no monitor that you could use without irritation.

These flicker free displays have been a miracle for me. I suffered red irritated eyes for 20+ years and always thought that I just use computers too much. But with the LED technology combined with PWM the problem became so severe that I needed to investegate it, as I could not go to a customer meeting and use my laptop screen periodically without getting red eyes.

Some 5 years ago there was almost no information on the topic. Now there is a lot, but still people who complain on the forums, that they get eye straing from e.g. Surface RT, are ridiculed, because people are just not aware of the problem.

That's why if we combine the camp fire migraine and light sensitive people with the flicker problem, it's even more unlikely to get this problem fixed.

I know that fixing the flicker leaves the camp fire migraine folks uncatered for, but unfortunately I think that it is another type of problem that might not ever be fixed with display technology.

But we cannot mix these problem types into one basket, since removing the flicker is a clear solution for many people. People that are just not aware that they suffer from the flicker.