Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Jan 16, 2018 1:58 PM

User uploaded file

2,489 replies

Jul 15, 2015 5:35 PM in response to Slacor

I agree with Slacor that it is really hard to find information on this specific issue we are all presenting. Even the title of the thread with just mere "eye strain" in the title seems too trivial. For many of us, this is much more than your typical eye strain you get when you read a book for too long. Often times, the effects are immediate (within minutes), and take days to resolve with rest (instead of a couple hours with normal eye strain).


I was fine all workweek until I worked for less than 5 minutes with a colleague yesterday that had dual Dell P1913 monitors running on an AMD chipset. It's an LED backlight, and each time I look at an LED monitor, I get a very distinct eye pain. It's quite sharp and concentrated, as if my eyeballs are being pinched, and it's immediate as I look at such a light source. During this brief exposure, the discomfort still remains a good 26 hours later. It's quite amazing actually, and I don't know how to explain it.


The monitor I'm fine with at work for the most part is a Dell U2410 with f.lux @ 5000K and a Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 display adapter (supposedly bad). The montior I use at home is also a Dell U2410 with f.lux @ 6500K and an nVidia graphics card (both work and home seem "equally good/bad', so in my case, the digital display itself is often the culprit).


This is a very difficult issue to solve. Too many factors.

Jul 17, 2015 1:54 AM in response to MagnuM396

Hello,


I bought my first macbook air 2015 model just few days ago, and I dicovered that macbook display causing me an eyestrain whitch I never had before.

I take my eyestrain problem serious, because I work as IT administrator so iam sitting in front of computer for an very long time every day.

Since I bought new macbook, my eyestrin problem apeared. I maeade some research in displays and eyetrain topic, and I would like to ask if some foil can help

reduce or get rid of eyestrain. I found ivisor foil http://www.apple.com/shop/product/H8054ZM/A/moshi-13-ivisor-air-matte-screen-pro tector-for-macbook-air

I would like to ask if someone tryed this foil and if it helped with the eyestrain problem.

thanks for answers

Jul 20, 2015 9:11 AM in response to RMartin111

Hello


I too have eyestrain with macbook air. I believe its the intel hd graphics driver. I also have a toshiba satellite http://www.toshiba.no/laptops/satellite/l50-b/satellite-l50-b-1r1/ which causes eye strain and that uses the intel hd 4400. But when im using my old laptop http://www.toshiba.no/discontinued-products/satellite-c660d-10w/ with amd hd 4250, my eyes are relaxed and i can use screen for hours with zero eyestrain(without using flux or any glasses, antiglare coating etc. Shame its so slow. So im thinking about buying this one: http://www.siba.no/aktuelle-kampanjer/nyheter/dataprodukter/asus-x550ze-dm051h-1 21216 that comes with amd. I also got an iphone 4s that causes no eyestrain.And i wonder if anyone has tried the macbook 12 retina and tell me if its strain free?

Jul 21, 2015 6:41 AM in response to justmeyes

It could very well be Intel graphics - or the screen itself - or both. Your older Toshiba used a TFT screen with 1st-gen LED backlight. I have no problem at all with 1st-gen LED, but liked it better with older Intel graphics. The 4000,4400,4500,5000,5500 are all unpleasant. I suspect they are using FRC (tempo-spatial dithering) by default, as do the newer Radeons.


I really don't understand how manufacturers think that temporo-spatial dithering is good... it's just as bad as PWM only instead of stroboscopic effects you get snow effects... still hellish on the eyes.

Jul 21, 2015 8:04 AM in response to Gurm42

Thank you for your answer. I also have an old toshiba c600-10v http://www.notebookcheck.net/Toshiba-Satellite-C660-10V.47672.0.html and isnt that a 1st-gen LED backlight too? Beacuse I have heavy eyestrain with this and that has intel media graphic accelerator (gma) hd4500. So if its 1st-gen LED backlight it makes no sense, its gotta be the intel drivers/card? And can you turn off the temporo-spatial dithering on newer Radeons (if I should buy one)? This is so annyoing as I cant do much work on this slow machine Im using now. I hope Intel find a solution to this fast...

Jul 22, 2015 12:24 PM in response to RMartin111

This week I received a prototype of the Dasung Paperlike. It is the answer to all my prayers. I used it all day today at work without my usual sunglasses and without any discomfort whatsoever.


It's basically an e-ink monitor screen. It's still a little clunky to use, the software could use some work, but I can get everything done that I need to. I recommend that everyone buys one when it hits the market later this year

Aug 3, 2015 4:55 AM in response to t0m@s0j1mb0t

Hey

I've been following this thread also a while now. Well this problem also affects me. I've never had any problems with my eyes and vision. But one year ago I decided to buy a new notebook and after some minutes of usage a heavy eyestrain and headache started. Even if I connected the new Notebook with HDMI to an old trusted LED (Lg Flatron) monitor. If i connected my old notebook to that monitor I don't get any eyestrain or headache. I've tried out also some other new notebooks, but i got always the same heavy eyestrain and symptoms. So I went on using my 6 year old notebook, but that is'nt any option any more. I really want to find out the reason for our eyestrain. Trial and Error purchasing new notebooks doesn't work.


I've also started a thread about this here:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/53309?start=0&tstart=0


Well. I think that the problem isn't any monitor or display technology. The only mutuality all products had, that I've testet, was the intel graphics. So I'm pretty sure after some research that the problem is the graphics driver. Something changed at a certain driver, which is the reason for our problems. Sorry that I've not read every post in this thread.

Aug 4, 2015 2:40 PM in response to SimonStokes

Quick update on my situation. As stated in my last post I've stopped using my Macbook as whether I use its own screen or plug into an external I get motion sickness, headaches and migraines lasting days after even a short use. So far:


- Built an old PC (ATI 9600 graphics - very dated), could use with BenQ monitor all day, no issues.

- Bought an Acer Aspire X3995 with Intel HD graphics, plugged into same monitor, couldn't use it all without migraines

- Fitted an Nvidia GT610 (£30) to the Acer X3995, could use with BenQ monitor all day, no issues

- Built a studio computer with Nvidia GTX 285 - no issues

- Bought another computer with AMD HD 6870 graphics, motion sickness, eyestrain and headaches

- Fitted Nvidia GT610, no issues. Going to buy a newer GTX 560 to try that.


So I've narrowed my problem down to being with both Intel HD graphics and at least that particular AMD graphics card. Same PC, same monitor, completely different feeling using the computer. Will update when the better Nvidia card arrives. I'm happy with where this is going, feels like progress at last. Just need to find a laptop without no Intel HD and Nvidia graphics and test that out..

Aug 4, 2015 3:25 PM in response to SimonStokes

Simon,


Not to totally harp on it, but this is pretty much what I expected. I can ONLY use nVidia graphics at this point - both in laptops and desktops.


Let's further compound it by remembering that AMD (Radeon) and Intel both have temporal dithering turned on by default.


Can you try the Radeon card with the registry keys I posted a couple pages back to disable temporal dithering?


- Gurm

Aug 4, 2015 4:01 PM in response to SimonStokes

This is a confusing part for me. I'm using Intel HD 4400 and this greatly bothered me. But utilizing my Dell U214H monitor, I no longer have these effects.

Intel HD graphics cannot be the source problem here. What is it that changes? Just the temporal dithering?

Perhaps a laptop that does not use PWM and a gpu that is non Intel HD. I wonder how to find these. My attempts at emailing all suppliers generally result in my explaining what PWM is - which a final It does have PWM.


"Trial and Error purchasing new notebooks doesn't work."

Absolutely. Sigh.

Aug 4, 2015 4:13 PM in response to Slacor

Slacor,


It's possible that your driver and card combo turns off whatever (temporal dithering, etc.) might be bothering you with your specific monitor. That's not universally true, but essentially if a monitor CAN output 8 bits per channel then NO DITHERING SHOULD BE USED. Unfortunately, many drivers/cards don't honor this. Specifically, Macbook pro systems use Retina displays, which are ALL capable of 8-bit color, and yet temporal dithering is locked on for ALL cards and drivers by the OS/firmware.


My XBox One uses an AMD chip, and temporal dithering is on HARD but some color output combinations minimize the effect (my plasma TV can totally display 30/36-bit color... it does its own dithering but I find that more acceptable...)


- Gurm42

Aug 4, 2015 11:35 PM in response to SimonStokes

Hey Simon,


thats nearly the same I've discovered so far. But I only checked out notebooks with Intel HD and Nvidia. But there was no chance to disable the Intel HD. So eyestrain all the time. But Asus Computer was much better than Lenovo, even with same graphic cards.


Intel Desktop graphics is the same mess. Eyestrain all the time.


A friend of mine checked out an amd notebook -> same eyestrain. But I've not tested it on my on so far.


Do you have installed the latest nvidia drivers all the time. In an other thread somebody told, that the same eyestrain starts after a certain intel HD driver update. Going back to the older driver version helps. But not deinstalling and installing the older driver. He has to change to an older hdd with the older driver version.


Do you have noticed a difference between DVI/HDMI and VGA?

Aug 5, 2015 1:22 AM in response to Gurm42

Gurm42: It seems we have pretty much identical experiences which is good news in a way! I'm still doing all my testing with an LCD screen, I've yet to take the machines that work from me and test on an LED display again, I'm really hoping I can rule out LED as being a cause for me, I will report back once I've done this, although I suspect all of us are sensitive to flickering of one kind or another - PWM, temporal dithering, refresh rates etc, so it might be a case of finding a 'magic combo' that works for you.


I'm not able to test the HD 6870 without temporal dithering as I've removed it from the machine. Right now I'm feeling pretty terrible after having used it for 2 days so it would be a bad idea to test just now anyway. I wish there was some clear way of demonstrating whether temporal dithering was enabled on a monitor - are there any obvious tests that can be done to check?


harrison_1234: On my desktops, the difference between using Intel HD / Radeon graphics and swapping to Nvidia graphics is night and day. Using the latest drivers from Nvidia and disabling onboard graphics the computer immediately becomes usable for me. I have tested with DVI, VGA and HDMI and all seem to output fine for me from the GT 610, whereas all are unusable when using the Intel HD onboard graphics.

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.