RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by putonyourcans,

    putonyourcans putonyourcans Oct 21, 2013 12:35 PM in response to RMartin111
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    Oct 21, 2013 12:35 PM in response to RMartin111

    I hope this question is not too off-topic, but I was wondering if anyone has had any negative experience with LED backlights used for dashboard displays or instrument panels in cars.  For example, the i-MID LCD screen in Honda vehicles has an LED backlight (http://www.honda.ca/accord_sedan/2013/trim-levels) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12P6emcRCRI).

     

    I have done some internet searches to see if PWM is used for these LED backlights in cars, but I have not readily found an answer.  I called Honda customer service, but they declined to provide an answer out of concern for their proprietary information.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Oct 21, 2013 4:10 PM in response to putonyourcans
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2013 4:10 PM in response to putonyourcans

    Your question is not off topic, I have been shopping for a car I can tolerate and I did drive the accord which sent me directly into a terrible migraine after just minutes. That screen is extremely blue, another brand using white/blue LED would be Cadillac, horrible....

  • by tyxxzy,

    tyxxzy tyxxzy Oct 23, 2013 12:41 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    iTunes
    Oct 23, 2013 12:41 AM in response to Exandas

    YOu are not alone..

    I have NEVER had migraines--until now

    My eyes are definitely being affected by this Retina screen.

    Wondering .. is there an after-market  solution??

  • by razureus,

    razureus razureus Oct 23, 2013 2:34 PM in response to tyxxzy
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 23, 2013 2:34 PM in response to tyxxzy

    Something change with new osx ?

     

    Im going to buy new notebook in couple of months and due to my experiance with macbook air I dont know what to take to have 100% no eyestrain like with my old-fashioned extarnal 22' samsung display...

  • by Jerry3012,

    Jerry3012 Jerry3012 Oct 24, 2013 12:35 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 24, 2013 12:35 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Hi Jessy,

     

    I have anti-reflective coating in my glass. Not sure if that is exactly the same as anti-glare coating. Maybe I need to buy a new one with anti-glare coating. mvanier mentioned that U2410 has anti-glare feature on it. It makes me wonder why it did not work for me.

     

    I feel like I am never going to be able to sort this out. I really wish I could watch videos on my computer like before without headaches. Now scrolling windows up and down also gives me headaches. Very similar to what I get from motion sickness... 

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Oct 24, 2013 2:07 PM in response to Jerry3012
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 24, 2013 2:07 PM in response to Jerry3012

    So does it help with CCFL screens at all? It will not do nearly as much for LED lighting of any kind, not sure what kind of coating you have as well. If you find no results with fluorescent lighting and anti-glare coatings we could have different experiences as well....

  • by Jerry3012,

    Jerry3012 Jerry3012 Oct 25, 2013 2:37 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 2:37 PM in response to Jessiah1

    I did not try many LCD screens. I have been using the dell ST2310 monitor at work for over 3 years. I got problems when I face my laptop LED screen at home. Actually, I did not realize it is the LED screen causing the problem until I found this forum about only 5 onths ago. Then I start to try differnt monitors, up till now, I have tried both the Dell U2410 and U2713HM (pmw flicker free?). But none of them worked for me.

     

    I wish I had come to this forum much earlier. My headache actually started around 2009 when I upgraded my laptop to a new one with LED screen. Very bad headaches, I had MRI scan and went to neurologists. Nothing was found. After a while, I started to realize that sitting infront of that new laptop made my headaches worse. I thought it was because of the noise. So I switched to my old laptop and my symptoms suddenly become better. Long story short, I feel so glad that now I know the reason for my headaches. Looking for solutions...

  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 Oct 25, 2013 8:17 PM in response to Jerry3012
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 8:17 PM in response to Jerry3012

    After few months I just lost hope for use any kind of lcd monitors and returned to my old good 19' CRT. I tested CCFL/EEFL/LED monitors with the same result: red and burning right eye after only one day of using it. When CCFL was the most comfortable and the LED was almost eye killer, causing severe pain. My tests of using incandascent backlighting to lcd was not proved to be successful. There was no burning this time but pain after some time. I understand my right eye has some unknown problem and is "not compatibile" with rear backlighted LCD technology. (however 2 doctors said it is everything ok with it....)

     

    CRT is far superior for me and I can watch it non-stop, so bye - bye LCD. I am planning to buy one of the best CRT monitor produced: Sony 24' Widescreen GDM-FW900 (2304 x 1440) in near future and test new 3D full HD EPSON 2030 3xLCD projector for watching films too. (i never have problems in cinema).

     

    BTW. Any small LCD like phone, camera or middle like laptops do not give me any problems. Probably becouse they emit much less light ....

    And here is good comparision report CRT vs LCD from year 2000: http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/vw/PDFs/Colorimetric_Characterization.pdf

    which shows the big differences in light spectrum, contrast and brightness.

  • by Simacca,

    Simacca Simacca Oct 27, 2013 5:39 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 5:39 AM in response to RMartin111

    Just been reading through this thread as I have purchased my first Macbook Pro Retina 13inch and am having severe eyestrain, focussing issues, tight head, dizziness, facial twitches, tinnitus and nausea. I have never experienced symptoms on this level before from looking at a computer screen and I have used quite a few in my lifetime. My vision is 20-20.

     

    My symptoms calmed down after the first day, but they are still there and it looks like I will have to return it as I can't handle feeling like this. I do not have any problems with iPhones, iPads with retina, etc etc.

     

    I am quite sad as the machine is great, but my health is more important. I have tried various settings, f.lux, etc, but nothing has improved.

  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 Oct 28, 2013 1:50 PM in response to Simacca
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 28, 2013 1:50 PM in response to Simacca

    Some links:

     

    1. New modified WLED LED's: GB-R LED and new filter: QDEF both creates wider light spectrum:

    http://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backlights     - maybe easier for eyes ?

     

    2. excelent comparision of spectrum of different light sources: http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/features/light-spectrum

     

    3. Interesting material about CRT, Plasma, DLP, LCD, OLED techologies: http://cs.haifa.ac.il/hagit/courses/ist/Lectures/IST08_Displaysx4.pdf

  • by FloWavE,

    FloWavE FloWavE Oct 30, 2013 9:59 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 30, 2013 9:59 PM in response to RMartin111

    I want to share my experience with apple stuff.

     

    So far I never had problems with apple screen or any other screens until I faced with

    2011 or 2010 (Can't remember) 11" Macbook Air.

     

    It was so bad. My eyes were hurting after few hours of use. I returned after 2 days.

     

    I just couldn't stare at it anymore.

     

    Then I thought i would never buy a mac.

     

    I have 4s and ipad3 which are totally okay with me. I can look at them 8 hours and i would be okay.

     

    Recently, I bought 2013 macbook air 13" (the cheapest model, no upgrades) with LG display.

     

    So far I am using it 5 hours everyday for few days and I am totally fine.

     

    I am liking the mac experince now..

     

    Try the new macbook air 13" if you can.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Oct 31, 2013 10:41 AM in response to FloWavE
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Oct 31, 2013 10:41 AM in response to FloWavE

    I can confirm that the new Air 13" does NOT make my eyes IMMEDIATELY hurt.

     

    I can't confirm anything more than that, because I haven't spent enough time with it. However, unlike the retina displays - or every other Mac for the past 2 years - the one that a user brought me to look at last week was actually tolerable for the 5 minutes that I used it, and did not give me a migraine for the rest of the day like any other Mac would have.


    So maybe there's something to these new LG displays?

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Oct 31, 2013 3:39 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 31, 2013 3:39 PM in response to Gurm42

    Regarding LG displays, I used a dual sim LG phone L5 E455 for a few hours and i was actually suprised that it did not bother my eyes. But i made light use, i.e. some phone calls and some email reading. I dont know what would happen if use it heavily as my current phone i.e. a lot of email reading and PIM use.

  • by noveu,

    noveu noveu Oct 31, 2013 6:06 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 31, 2013 6:06 PM in response to RMartin111

    I have the same problem with my macbook air- eversince I started using it, my ayes were redder than usual and irritating. Now that I don't use the mac anymore, my eyes are much more comfortable and healthy. I tried to return the mac, but they don't take it back- they say 14 days only! This is not something you notice in a week or two though, and I was not aware of the problem before I bought the stupid mac- otherwise I wouldn't have for sure. See this: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100185960/are-apples-screens- damaging-our-eyes/

  • by noveu,

    noveu noveu Oct 31, 2013 6:07 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 31, 2013 6:07 PM in response to RMartin111

    If you care about your eyes, don't buy macs!

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