RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Feb 2, 2014 11:26 PM in response to OQ3
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    Feb 2, 2014 11:26 PM in response to OQ3

    @OQ3, mvanier: agree as well, high quality, high speed camera could give us some new insights.

     

    As I reported some days ago, I have tried as well intel graphics on Linux with spatial or disabled dithering and it didn't help...

     

    But, I have still kept the computer. It is a Vaio Pro 13 with the so called triluminos display. If you watch the Sony commercial you may think it is an 8 bit display, but it is not (Linux reports it as 6 bit), it seems the triluminos technology only relates to the backlight.

     

    However I can use it  under Win8.1 for hours without issues, BUT only if I don't plug it in. It turned out the difference is when the Intel display power saving technology (DPST) is activated, and Intel disables it automatically when pluged in. I also disabled DPST when on battery and the eye strain came back, so I'm quite sure now that DPST makes a difference. I'm also quite sure dynamic dithering is still used with DPST, since spatial dithering is easy to recognize by just checking the image with a magnifying glass. (No dithering at all results in terrible banding, I didn't think that dithering makes so much difference in the image quality perception)

     

    (As a note, I must say I have the feeling that even on DPST it is not so comfortable anymore if I increase the brightness too much or use colder colour settings)

     

    If you read about DPST, you'll find out that it works by reducing backlight and compensating it by contrast improving image processing. Needless to say, I have tried to mimic this with DPST off without result, so it may be some other settings are changed as well.

     

    Could maybe also other people here try the DPST? Unfortunatelly seems to be enabled only under Windows. Sometimes it is also quite bothering, when you change from a dark to a light image, you can see the gradual adjustment of the backlight/contrast, so many people just turn it off.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 3, 2014 4:14 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2014 4:14 AM in response to StefanD13

    Stefan, are you saying that this laptop is usable on its own? It does not create eye strain, etc?

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Feb 3, 2014 4:45 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2014 4:45 AM in response to Exandas

    Uh... I'm even afraid to say it... yes...

     

    If I don't plug it in and if DPST is enabled and if brigthness is just one step above minimum and if colours are set to "Text" mode, I used it daily for hours during the past 2 weeks. Sometimes after some hours I feel my eyes burning/tired (but not tensed) and if I stop there are no remaining symptoms. I would say it is... normal...

     

    It still bothers me a lot that I don't know why is that and what will happen at the next driver update... (The Win8.1 is already notifying me I should download the latest driver version)

     

    As a side note, the device itself is not bad, although especially the keyboard and the touchpad are miles away from the feeling and precision of a Mac (touchpad reacts much better under Linux though)

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 3, 2014 5:08 AM in response to StefanD13
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    Feb 3, 2014 5:08 AM in response to StefanD13

    Stefan, I can only use laptops due to my profession, so this is a pleasent surprise for me if i can use it like you do without issues!

    I thought only external displays could be the solution to our sensitivity.

    What is the exact model so i can give it a try?

     

    Thanks!

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 3, 2014 8:15 AM in response to tight_eye
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2014 8:15 AM in response to tight_eye

    Tight_eye,

     

    That's good news for you.

     

    Will you keep using Windows 7? I wonder if Windows 8 will make the same effect.

     

    What about using Windows 7 on a VM inside OSX? I am curious.

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Feb 3, 2014 11:20 AM in response to Exandas
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    Feb 3, 2014 11:20 AM in response to Exandas

    Hi Exandas,

    The exact model is:

    Sony VAIO Pro SVP1321J1EBI 33,8 cm (13,3 Zoll matt) Ultrabook (Intel Core i3 4010U, 1,7Ghz, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Intel HD 4400, NFC, Win 8)

    It may be the model number is only Germany relevant.

     

    Stefan

  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier Feb 3, 2014 2:10 PM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2014 2:10 PM in response to StefanD13

    Stefan, that's good news!  I wonder, what happens when you plug the laptop in to an external CCFL-backlit display?  Can you still use it?  With or without plugging it in?

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Feb 3, 2014 11:07 PM in response to mvanier
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2014 11:07 PM in response to mvanier

    Hi mvanier,

    Haven't tried yet, according to Intel, DPST is active only when on batery and with no connected external display.

    But I'll try and report.

    Stefan

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 4, 2014 2:54 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 4, 2014 2:54 AM in response to StefanD13

    stefan,

     

    maybe you could try on a old monitor or maybe a tv that doesn't cause you any trouble. Plug the laptop to ensure that DPST is enable. That way you might check if the tv/old monitor also gives eye strain.

     

    Altough the software might help, it could help to understand if the monitor also plays a role.

  • by tight_eye,

    tight_eye tight_eye Feb 5, 2014 8:57 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 5, 2014 8:57 AM in response to RMartin111

    I actually only have a very short question: Is anyone else here experiencing the same effect with the macbook as being out in the sun on a summer day and then returning into the house. As you probably know, in this case everything needs to adjust for a while and seems a bit "snowy". This is what I experience atm. Eye strain is a bit less though.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 6, 2014 12:37 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 12:37 AM in response to Exandas

    I want to report another experience that i had with an Android media player connected to my main TV set.

     

    I have a 2-3 year old LG TV (not LED) and up to now everything seemed to work perfectly. I could watch TV, connect my laptop via HDMI and watch movies, connect Wii, PS2, and DVD player to play games and watch DVDs.

     

    Last Saturday i purchased an android media player and connected the device via HDMI. Half an hour later after watching a movie, 3 out of 4 people in the room experienced headaches and sore eyes.

     

    I returned the media player to the store in exchange to another brand android media player. The second android media player caused the same symptoms with the original device. 

     

    I have now exchanged the second device with an non android media player (dedicated to play movies and music and does nothing else) to see how it goes.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 6, 2014 1:14 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 1:14 AM in response to Exandas

    Interesting. Anyone ever tried a raspberry pi? I bought one and i am using, i will report later.

     

    Can you say please the model of the box?

     

    Thanks

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 6, 2014 2:05 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 2:05 AM in response to tfouto

    Both are local brands, they are not known internationally

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 6, 2014 2:37 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 2:37 AM in response to Exandas

    but do you remember their names? I would search on Internet. I want to find Android version. Check if there are differences...

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Feb 6, 2014 3:21 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 3:21 AM in response to Exandas

    @Exandas: same problems, I cannot use Apple TV 3 (2 was OK), I couldn't use a new Samsung home cinema, I cannot use the new STB sent by my cable provider.

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