RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Feb 18, 2014 6:30 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Feb 18, 2014 6:30 AM in response to tfouto

    Any of the last few dozen posts anything to do with Mac Book Pro??  Sony, Windows, Android......

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 18, 2014 1:54 PM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 18, 2014 1:54 PM in response to peter_watt

    peter_watt, this thread is more about eye sight then apple products in general. People are desperate. They tried Mac products and failed. They just want something to work it...

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Feb 18, 2014 4:07 PM in response to tfouto
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Feb 18, 2014 4:07 PM in response to tfouto

    tfouto wrote:

     

    peter_watt, this thread is more about eye sight .....

    My point exactly.

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 20, 2014 2:43 PM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 20, 2014 2:43 PM in response to tfouto

    after more than a week playing with the sony vaio pro 13 , i can infact say that the soreness is not there. everything ok and eyesight is totally normal. my next buy will be a 15 inch multi flip with same screen and intel hd graphics. as the screen is 15 inch, i think it will be even better.

     

    it is the first touchscreen were my eyes are totally ok! I'm a happy man and hope that i can help other people suffering from eyesight issue yith most led screens. i think intel graphics are the way to go for us. next step is to filter out the changes in settings frequency or steering of the display.

     

    i mean, having a pc or apple with intel graphics is not enough.... new findings will be posted during the crusade to find the root cause

  • by luisx,

    luisx luisx Feb 21, 2014 12:49 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 12:49 AM in response to wimpytron

    Hi wimpytron,

     

    Could you specify if that pleasant feeling is on batteries or when plugged?

     

    I went yesterday to a shop looking for this unit to test it. I couldn't find it but instead there was in there one of the flip laptop/tablets that also sports a Trilumiun display. I played with it for 10 min and got bad sympthoms almost inmediatly, although I must say that the unit was plugged and I couldn't try it in battery mode only 

     

    So, your 13 pro happiness comes when you are on batteries?

     

    thanks, luis

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 21, 2014 2:23 AM in response to luisx
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 2:23 AM in response to luisx

    it was all the time ON BATTERIES and all settings set for best battery life.

     

    This weekend i wil start the same tests with the power cord plugged in. TBC !

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 21, 2014 2:51 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 2:51 AM in response to wimpytron

    wimpytron

     

    do you use it on batteries? With the brightness on minimum?

     

    Can you try and use the on batteries ON, but brightness not on minimum, for instance medium, just to try?

     

    thanks

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 21, 2014 3:54 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 3:54 AM in response to tfouto

    luisx,

     

    did you took a multi flip model with intel graphics or the one with NVIDIA... cause there are two options : models with intel or models with nvidia: you have to try the one with intel graphicsdriver.

     

     

    tfouto :

     

    i put the brightness at about 30%, but even if i put it higher it is still ok for my eyes, but then the brightness bothers me ;-)

  • by luisx,

    luisx luisx Feb 21, 2014 4:30 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 4:30 AM in response to wimpytron

    the one I tried was Vaio Fit 13A and it did have intel graphics HD4400 with Triluminos display. It looked really great and useful with its hybrid tablet/laptop functionality and the screen quality was superb. However I got bad sympthoms after 10min of usage but it was on the power supply.

     

    I believe the specs of this unit are similar (if not the same) as your Pro 13. You will tell us soon about your experience with the Pro while connected. I'm afraid (and also hope not for you) that you will feel something odd when doing the same test connected.

     

    As for myself, if I can be convinced (will try it more) that this laptop is confortable for the eyes on batteries but not with power... because I am a bit desperate I might go an purchase it. Still I'd hate the feeling of spending a lot of money on something that is not 100% satisfactory and health impacting but given the circunstances this is the first case in 4 years that I hear of a possible good screen for the eyes.

     

    anyway, I look forward to hear from you and your "with power" tests. I suppose your unit has a touch screen display, right?  If you buy it online I noticed an option to add a bright filter to the screen for 20$.

     

    best regards, luis

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 21, 2014 4:56 AM in response to luisx
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 4:56 AM in response to luisx

    luis,

     

    indeed it is with a touchscreen. the first touchscreen EVER where my eyes don't grow sore... a relief! I must say, allthough, that a lot of laptops with a non-touchscreen are good for my eyes too... but it really limits our choice, because you can find superb machines and than have to sell it or return it due to eye soreness. I'm considering to buy the SAmsung ue55f8000 led tv as a replacement of my sony nx800 (good for the eyes) but I'm a bit afraid to experience soreness also.... as it cost 2.500 euros..... "staring" at it at the shop for 15-20 minutes gave me a comfortable feeling, so i hope it stays that way. my ipad retina is SOLD already for the simple reason that my eyes hurt like ****, even with a sleepshield filter on it. Did you know i had to buy 4 different telephones lately to conclude that htc one was the only one were my eyes did not hurt? I really hope that new techniques are softer on the eyes, as before ten years, I never expierenced this issue, and i was working all day on laptops (but back then it was ccfl and max 14-15 inch). it all began with the first acer with a 17 inch screen.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 21, 2014 4:57 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 4:57 AM in response to wimpytron

    HTC one x, right?

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 21, 2014 5:33 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 5:33 AM in response to tfouto

    yup,

     

    htc one X - the model just before the htc one came out. did not try that.

     

    very weird, that even reading sms (text mesages) on certain telephones hurts our eyes..... has the world come to an end ;-)  ?

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 21, 2014 6:30 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2014 6:30 AM in response to wimpytron

    yes,

     

    5 seconds and i feel my eyes hurt...

     

    It truly puzzles me...

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 24, 2014 10:40 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 24, 2014 10:40 AM in response to tfouto

    after "somehours on power playing the sony vaio pro i must admit that it is all ok. maybe a slight difference due to the stronger brightness but this causes not the weirdness i feel with a bad screen....and, one can lower the brightness easily. i cannot wait to get the hybrid multi flip 15 sony vaio.... i hope, with this info, i can help some people who suffer from eyesoreness...go and buy a sony. (only select models with intel video and triluminus display)... as apple does not have any good screens for us sufferers

  • by Gareth Jones6,

    Gareth Jones6 Gareth Jones6 Feb 24, 2014 11:16 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Feb 24, 2014 11:16 AM in response to wimpytron

    I've just ordered the Sony Vaio Pro 13 and it is breaking me financially! Will send back if it is no good obviously.

     

    I decided not to go for the multi-flip because I think it only has a battery life of 'up to 6 hours', which isn't very much if you are using it solely on batteries, especially once the battery starts to degrade. Vaio Pro on the other hand has an upgrade to allow 16 hours.

     

    I realised I never reported back on my trip to the opticians. I had an extra coating applied to my glasses but unfortunately it hasn't really made a difference. The optician was insistent that it would do the same job as Crizal Prevencia but I guess not.

     

    And she dismissed my request for a strabismus test out of hand - I guess maybe I could have been stronger but she seemed pretty certain and I didn't have the energy to fight. I'm afraid I can't really get my head around the self-test...

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