RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by jaminhubner,

    jaminhubner jaminhubner Nov 19, 2011 4:57 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 19, 2011 4:57 PM in response to RMartin111

    Dood, common sense tells us alot.

     

    First of all, turning up the brightness isn't going to get rid of flickering, any more than turning up your speakers is going to get rid of sound distortion. The answer to the flickering is turning up the refresh rate - which is why TV companies have been doing it, going from 60hz to 120hz to 240 hz. The more frames/second, the less flicker there is (note that to yourself when you go to buy an LED TV!) It's unfortunate that computer companies haven't caught on to that yet. But mark my words, they'll be offering screens with 120hz refresh in the future.

     

    Second of all, those who suggest (hopefully not sent by apple to calm us down in this thread) that we should just "wait and your eyes will adjust" is neither grounded in experience or fact. 99% of those whose eyes are irritated by the new LED screens end up having to get a new screen. Waiting and using it more results in a greater headache, not a smaller one.

  • by @MuDaeBoJongShin,

    @MuDaeBoJongShin @MuDaeBoJongShin Nov 20, 2011 10:25 AM in response to jaminhubner
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 20, 2011 10:25 AM in response to jaminhubner

    I think there's two different rates in play here.  There's the rate at which the LCD panel's pixels' transparency is updated to change what appears on the screen.  And there's the rate at which the LED backlight, behind the LCD panel, is flashing in order to simulate a reduction in brightness (assuming that is indeed how it works on Macbooks).  When a TV is advertised as 120hz, I'm pretty sure it's the former they're referring to.

  • by TheAnswer_03,

    TheAnswer_03 TheAnswer_03 Nov 24, 2011 2:01 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 24, 2011 2:01 PM in response to RMartin111

    One solution I've found is to download and install an app called Shades which will decrease brightness without affecting the backlight. Therefore, you can turn the backlight to MAX to avoid the pulse modulation and use the Shades app to keep brightness down to reasonable levels. Only issue is on dark solid colors on screen, it's a bit washed out since the backlight is still at the Max level.

  • by Strapontin,

    Strapontin Strapontin Dec 4, 2011 2:49 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 4, 2011 2:49 PM in response to RMartin111

    So,

     

    As far I can see (without bad joke, I am was using a Ibook g4 with LCD monitor... till my mac reparator break it) the LED-backlight technology is used by Apple since 2006 and the Macbook, Macbook pro, and then Macbook air, to speak only about laptops, and the first post is almost 5 years old.

     

    I am wondering in a LED-backlight screen dominated world what could be the alternative for the sensitive people ? Switching back to PC ? A pity, and almost every of it now has LED screens. Using a external screen ? Don't joke, everybody is not ONLY working at home. How to do when we have presentations ?

     

    So I would like to know if Apple have an answer or an alternative to that, or if it exists any petition or document to sign on the internet to have the possibility to order, even as a *costly* option (people which can't do otherwise will be DEFINITELY very happy to pay, even 400 S or € more, I am sure, if it only gives an alternative) a old-fashioned and so agreeable LCD-backlighted (non-LED) screen ?

     

    Thank you a lot for your answer,

     

    Regards,

     

    T.

  • by dangerbirds,

    dangerbirds dangerbirds Dec 4, 2011 2:57 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 4, 2011 2:57 PM in response to RMartin111

    Check out f.lux (http://stereopsis.com/flux/) if you use your laptop in artificially lit environments. Helps immensely.

  • by rohanzsta,

    rohanzsta rohanzsta Jan 8, 2012 11:46 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 8, 2012 11:46 AM in response to RMartin111

    I recently purchased a Macbook Pro and a Dell XPS, and both of them have led to severe eye strain after only 30 minutes on the computer. This problem is truly saddening, as the issues do not appear to have been addressed in the past 3 years. In fact, things have gotten much worse for all of us suffering. Every single laptop currently being shipped is made with an LED-backlight screen.

     

    My question to all of you is this: Has anyone suffering from LED eyestrain purchased a laptop within the past year that has cured them of this problem? I'm not just referring to Macbooks, I'm talking about any product from either Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc. The reason I ask is because I hear that each manufacturer has their own variation of creating LED-backlight screens, and the screens of some companies might be easier on our eyes than others. For me personally, I've noticed that LED-backlit screens on Asus laptops are a bit more comfortable for my eyes.

     

    Also, are there any good, affordable CCFL-backlit monitors still for sale these days (24-27inch)? I would truly appreciate if someone could post some links.

  • by MrVas,

    MrVas MrVas Jan 8, 2012 5:02 PM in response to rohanzsta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 8, 2012 5:02 PM in response to rohanzsta

    I've used three LED based displays over the past year (two MacBooks and one HP ProBook).  After adjusting settings to fit my needs, the initial eye strain went away and I am quite happy with LED displays on all three systems.  You should read through this thread for suggestions on how to minimize eye strain, I'm sure there is a very simple solution for most people with this condition.

     

    Good luck.

  • by Strapontin,

    Strapontin Strapontin Jan 9, 2012 4:46 AM in response to rohanzsta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 4:46 AM in response to rohanzsta

    Yes, I did.

     

    For me, eye strain does not only appears on glossies screens, but also LED-mattes screens, whatever they are computers, or televisions.

    As it is here described, to make it short and simple, it could be due to the LED technology because LED are separately flashing when the are on, while CCFL is just one big lamp at the back, and some persons perceive (well, the eye perceive) the flashes.

     

    It seems there is no alternative nowadays, but there is nome petitions and articles on internet (cannot put a link, last time the post was erased), but the deal with no led screens and not glossies displays.

     

    By the way, have you noticed a difference between glossies and mattes screens ?

     

    Regards,

     

    T.

  • by rohanzsta,

    rohanzsta rohanzsta Jan 9, 2012 8:17 AM in response to Strapontin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 8:17 AM in response to Strapontin

    I already know that the problem is with LED screens. For me personally, matte screens have not been of any real help. How did you cure your eye strain problem? Did you just purchase a CCFL monitor to hook up to your laptop?

     

    Another question for all: Has anyone purchased any pair of glasses (either prescribed, or un-prescribed) that has cured them of eye strain from LED-backlights?

     

    I've read through this entire thread, and while turning the brightness on Full does help a bit, I'm still feeling some strain.

  • by Strapontin,

    Strapontin Strapontin Jan 9, 2012 11:45 AM in response to rohanzsta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 11:45 AM in response to rohanzsta

    "How did you cure your eye strain problem?"

     

    I don't. And I am crying blood tears because my iBook G4 had passed away. For several month, I work on "provisory" solutions and second hand computers (really usefull at university). That's why I am passed (may be read by a "i" instead of the "a") to another kind of tactic : I am trying to see what are the petitions, and if some official medical literature was issued concerning this issue. It seem there may begin to be a little bit of something, but it's well hidden and really subtle.

     

    To take an hypothetical situation, and making a comparison, it reminds me something of tobacco lobby : it's bad for the health, known, but it may happen that other forces beyond can still make use of it. Of course, this statement is only hypothetical. :-)

     

    If you'll find something, I'll be really glad if you can post it there or send me an email (maybe you have access to my data though my id ?). Thanks !

     

    By the way, when you turn to full brightness,do not forget to use the sunglasses software (forgotten the name. Could be written higher on that thread), even if it turns the color to disgusting, it protect your retinia (not sure of the spelling. The light sensitive part of your eye anyway) from the too strong light. :-) (Yes, I already try it, and actually, it worked maybe half an hour more than usual (which are 15 to 20 minutes), but afterwhile, it's still the same).

  • by dan98,

    dan98 dan98 Jan 9, 2012 12:02 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 12:02 PM in response to RMartin111

    I was starting to be surrounded by LED screens, and becoming nauseous and dizzy on a regular basis. Not just apple kit either.

    Fortunately I wasn't restricted to Apple hardware, but for those who are, I feel your pain.

    Since finally diagnosing the problem I've started to purge myself of LEDs.:

    The Ipad is gone to start.

    At work, they are fortunately behind the 'curve' and are still on LCDs. I use 2 x Apple 20 inch LCDs.

    Macbook has gone, in favour of Lenovo. Infact this is an LED but for some reason doesnt bother me at all, perhaps due to a higher flicker rate as suggested above.

    Even my LED TV was giving me dizziness so had to go in favour of a second hand Sony LCD.

    Having made all these changes I'm pleased to say I feel normal again. Ha.

     

    I'm a strong believer that sustained discomfort will eventuallyl cause you ill health. If a piece of equipment doesnt feel right over time, it isn't right, despite whatever Apple or anyone else tells you.

  • by rohanzsta,

    rohanzsta rohanzsta Jan 9, 2012 12:10 PM in response to dan98
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 12:10 PM in response to dan98

    Thank you for this response.


    I am looking to buy a laptop, and I'm interested in learning more about Lenovos. Can you please link me to the Lenovo you purchased?

     

    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

  • by dan98,

    dan98 dan98 Jan 9, 2012 12:15 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 12:15 PM in response to RMartin111

    Hi,

    Its the U450.

    Ultimately its not as clear as an LCD, but my dizziness stays away. (and it only cost £220...)

    Hope that helps

  • by Dave Nikkel,

    Dave Nikkel Dave Nikkel Jan 9, 2012 12:37 PM in response to rohanzsta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 12:37 PM in response to rohanzsta

    Reagrding CCFL monitors, there are still some good ones out there.  Looking at this page of recommended high quality IPS panels (http://www.squidoo.com/photo-editing-monitors), the Asus PA246Q is still available.  Not sure whether Dell or HP still makes a high grade non-LED model.

  • by @MuDaeBoJongShin,

    @MuDaeBoJongShin @MuDaeBoJongShin Jan 9, 2012 1:06 PM in response to Dave Nikkel
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 1:06 PM in response to Dave Nikkel

    Dell do two CCFL monitors, the U2410 which I'm using now (24") and a 27" version.  It's said that the IPS LCD panel in the 27" version is the same part used in the Apple Cinema Display, but with the CCFL backlight instead of LED.

     

    Not cheap but they're top-of-the-range monitors and you can see the quality the moment you look at them.  Just makes me wish I'd bought a Mac Mini instead of a MacBook, as there's no point owning a laptop I can't open.

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