RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Aug 10, 2014 1:29 PM in response to Zini316
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 10, 2014 1:29 PM in response to Zini316

    Well I can't be 100% certain. But I found this on a website a while back:

     

    if you open terminal and run this command:

    ioreg -lw0 | grep "EDID" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

     

    It should report back the screen ID. You need to download some Apple software to be able to access this, which will be prompted automatically if I recall. Mine returned LTH116AT01A04, which corresponds to Samsung.

     

    I'm not saying that Samsung displays will work for everyone and that LG displays cause eye strain; only that in my situation I have been able to use Samsung displays in a large number of Apple products, and can't use the LG displays due to eye strain. But this could all be coincidence as I have not tried the MacBook Air with an LG panel, only the MacBook Pro Retinal with the LD display, which I still can't use for more than 15 minutes.

     

     

     


  • by Zini316,

    Zini316 Zini316 Aug 10, 2014 1:33 PM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 10, 2014 1:33 PM in response to Scott98981

    I'm very concerned with the eye strain issue because 2-3 yrs ago I purchased a MacBook Pro and had the severe eye strain so many have talked about. I need a new computer and I am now not sure if I should purchase an iMac or MacBook Air to try and prevent the eye strain from occurring again. Any thoughts?

  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Aug 10, 2014 1:48 PM in response to Zini316
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 10, 2014 1:48 PM in response to Zini316

    Unfortunately since none of us have been able to determine what the source of the eye strain is, I can't make any strong recommendations other than trying a product to see if it works with your eyes. Apple has a two week return policy, but so do other manufacturers. Another option is to look on Ebay or other sites for older CCFL monitors. I bough a low price CCFL from 2009 that still works and I can use that with my Mac (using DVI out only, HDMI causes eye strain/nausea for some reason). I used to think this problem was related to LEDs in general, but I'm now thinking it may be more related to drivers. Some people have had success using Windows in BootCamp on the MacBook Pro. You could consider trying that on your Macbook.

  • by Zini316,

    Zini316 Zini316 Aug 10, 2014 3:20 PM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 10, 2014 3:20 PM in response to Scott98981

    does using an iphone 5 and an ipad 3 give any insight if the MacBook Air or imac will be better or worse?

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Aug 11, 2014 9:19 AM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 11, 2014 9:19 AM in response to Scott98981

    This is a mystery that is particularly frustrating for me and I am writing, I'm sorry to say, just to add confusing data.  I have been operating a mid-model 2009 for about 5 years with an external Samsung SyncMaster E1930 with no problems at all.  Friday, I had Mavericks installed, replacing 10.6.8 which is no longer supported and I worried about security updates.  Plus, I'll admit I was three OS back and my machine was running a little slowly and some software was not available to me on the old OS.  I figured, "same hardware, what could go wrong," but as we have learned with iPhone updates, it makes a difference.  Now, with this upgrade to Mavericks, using this same screen makes my eyes red and itchy.  I fear I will have to spend another day at the Apple Store returning my computer to the previous configuration.  Perhaps my eyes will adjust as mysteriously described by someone else, but right now I am in ****.  Clearly, this problem we have involves the software from Apple also.

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Aug 12, 2014 5:02 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 12, 2014 5:02 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    I received my new benq xl2420z yesterday, unfortunately it also don't work.

  • by CT,

    CT CT Aug 12, 2014 5:14 AM in response to soundstar3
    Level 6 (17,883 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 12, 2014 5:14 AM in response to soundstar3
  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Aug 12, 2014 12:26 PM in response to soundstar3
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 12, 2014 12:26 PM in response to soundstar3

    Thanks for the update. It is helpful when people post monitors that have worked. I'm curious what has happened to all the other previous posters in this thread. Presumably they have found some solution or a monitor/laptop that works for them.

  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Aug 12, 2014 12:27 PM in response to Zini316
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Aug 12, 2014 12:27 PM in response to Zini316

    Unfortunately there is no way to know for sure without testing out the displays yourself.

  • by webhughes,

    webhughes webhughes Aug 12, 2014 9:53 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 12, 2014 9:53 PM in response to RMartin111

    I have had a very severe version of this condition since 2008. It has never fully resolved but I've learned to cope with it. I really empathize with a lot of you guys on here; this ruined my entire life for 3 years as a graduate student under intense fluorescent lighting every day for hours, on top of using a 2009 MBP with horrible flicker and having no clue what was wrong with me. Several seizure-like episodes, extreme mental sluggishness basically all day, nausea, headaches, irritability, red eyes, dry eyes, etc.

     

    Thankfully, for some reason the 2013 MBP 13' Retina display with F.lux gives me hardly any trouble (there was an adjustment period of a week or two, that was about a year and a half ago). No clue what I would do without this screen.

     

    I recently purchased a new 27' iMac, unboxed it, installed F.lux and was messing around in Logic Pro for 15 minutes and immediately boxed the thing back up and am shipping it back asap. I'd forgotten how horrific that feeling was but this particular screen is among the very worst offenders I've encountered, which completely ***** because I love how sleek it looks and how cool the screen is otherwise. Wish there was SOMETHING we could adjust but I tried everything I could think of and no dice.

     

    Now I have to buy a Mac Mini and find a suitable monitor (a very discouraging process as it generally involves returning monitor after monitor). I'm looking at the Dell U2414, the Dell P2414, and the HP ZR2740w v2. Anyone had success with these monitors?

     

    Hopefully Apple will come through with a retina-style monitor that doesn't torture our eyes, but until then we'll have to make due.

     

    Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Wish I had found it 5 years ago.

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Aug 13, 2014 6:41 PM in response to webhughes
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 13, 2014 6:41 PM in response to webhughes

    There is at least one website that sell e-ink monitors, do a google search for (sol computer). Maybe someone can try this monitor and give us the feedback. I live in europe and the shipping charges with customs are very expensive. I think the solution for many of us are in e-ink technology.

  • by NikolaosK,

    NikolaosK NikolaosK Aug 13, 2014 7:16 PM in response to webhughes
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 13, 2014 7:16 PM in response to webhughes

    I had the U2414H. I didn't have nausea with it (so the flicker free claims are true), but I did get severe eye burning/pain. To make it bearable, I had to turn brightness to 0 and Flux at 3400K. In comparison, I'm running my old (CCFL) monitor at much higher brightness and at a normal 6500K temperature and the eye discomfort is barely there.

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Aug 15, 2014 8:30 PM in response to NikolaosK
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 15, 2014 8:30 PM in response to NikolaosK

    What about transflective monitors? Something as the Pixel QiPQ3QI-01. Someone should try one. Im searching for a good transflective monitor but its very hard to know what to buy. Many transflective monitors are expensive and sold from small companies.

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Aug 19, 2014 6:57 AM in response to soundstar3
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 19, 2014 6:57 AM in response to soundstar3

    Today i tried one of the best extensions for my eye strain, Hacker Vision for chrome. Unfortunatly i found no similar extension for safari.

  • by max.kammerer,

    max.kammerer max.kammerer Aug 24, 2014 5:08 AM in response to soundstar3
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 24, 2014 5:08 AM in response to soundstar3

    Hi all, is anybody tried new macbook pro mid 2014? Is problem is present with it?

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