RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Mar 26, 2012 3:02 PM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin
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    Mar 26, 2012 3:02 PM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin

    I came across Gunnar computer glasses which filter not only UV (<380nm), but also near UV (381-450nm), so called "blue light". Lots of people on the Internet report a positive experience. You could try that, should tell you if it's the blue LED or not. It's the amber tint which filters out the blue light, normal UV filters are clear.

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Mar 27, 2012 2:46 AM in response to CoreLinker
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2012 2:46 AM in response to CoreLinker

    I actually bought a pair of 'blue light' blocking glasses through my opticians (ie ones made specifically to block blue light). They didn't solve the discomfort I experience using my Apple products (glossy Macbook 3,1 and non-glossy Macbook Pro late 2009, plus iphone 3G and then 4s), and added a different, more acute discomfort too! I went back to normal glasses and my hooked-up CCFL monitor. Obviously, that's only my experience; it might be that blue light filtering would work for others.

     

    Incidentally, I purchased the new iPad ('3') last week, and soon found that it irritated my eyes as much as all my other Apple products. Gutted. I took it back and got a refund. I've since bought a Samsung Galaxy Note, the OLED screen of which is superb, and absolutely comfortable to look at (though without the advantages of the Apple software etc).

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Mar 27, 2012 8:40 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 27, 2012 8:40 AM in response to FNP7

    It sounds like OLED screens are something to look forward for!

    Though.. I guess Apple doesn't have plans to switch to OLED within the near future..

  • by azure8,

    azure8 azure8 Mar 27, 2012 12:16 PM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 27, 2012 12:16 PM in response to FNP7

    Interesting, I find the iPad 3 to be a less strain when reading text because of the higher dpi. I haven't used it for prolonged periods though. Hopefully whatever retina displays apple updates the macbooks to will be an improvement for all of us eye strain sufferers over the current gen.

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Mar 27, 2012 12:17 PM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2012 12:17 PM in response to Eric Leung1

    As OLED is self-illuminating, does it also represent constant light? Also isn't the iPad 3 illuminated by a dual OLED bar design? That was the rumor anyway, I mean that's an interesting start. Haha for now a 55" OLED tv coming out later this year should apparently cost $8000.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Mar 28, 2012 4:35 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 4:35 AM in response to FNP7

    FNP7: May I know if you have direct fluorescent light right above where you primarily use the Apple products?

    I don't have iPad (3), but I use iPad 2 a lot and my eyes feel comfortable reading on it for hours in many different places.

    However, when I use the iPad in office where bright and direct fluorescent light is everywhere, my eyes would feel irritated if look at the screen for long.

  • by @MuDaeBoJongShin,

    @MuDaeBoJongShin @MuDaeBoJongShin Mar 28, 2012 5:58 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 5:58 AM in response to RMartin111

    This is just an aside, but I think I just discovered a simpler way to test for PWM. Just point the iPhone 4 or 4S *front* camera directly at the screen. It clearly shows a diagonal interference pattern on my Sony Z laptop (which I've never had any trouble looking at) but nothing on my MacBook Air which doesn't use PWM. It even picks up the flickering of the energy-saving bulb in my desk lamp.

  • by eww,

    eww eww Mar 28, 2012 6:19 AM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin
    Level 9 (52,994 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 6:19 AM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin

    Is it possible that the flickering of your desk lamp might have something to do with your problem?

  • by @MuDaeBoJongShin,

    @MuDaeBoJongShin @MuDaeBoJongShin Mar 28, 2012 6:28 AM in response to eww
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 6:28 AM in response to eww

    If only! No, the lamp is a lot newer than the problem and the MBA screen was unusuable under any lighting (I tried all forms including sunlight).

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Mar 28, 2012 6:43 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 6:43 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Hi Eric,

     

    I don't have direct fluorescent light above where I primarily use the apple products (at home). I did, as you'd expect, try the iPad in a variety of lighting situations and with a range of brightness settings, hoping to find a way to 'beat' the discomfort, but couldn't, so took it back. The discomfort I experienced was exactly the same as I'd got from my non-glossy MBP, so I don't think it's about reflection, in my case at least.

     

    I think whatever it is affects different pairs of eyes to different degrees. I certainly never had the nausea/ sickness that others on this forum have described, but at the same time my eyes would become sore and I would get a headache if I tried to use these displays, inc the iPad, for any length of time (ie post 15 mins). For me, the future is to wait until Apple use a different display tech before I buy any more hardware from them.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Mar 28, 2012 9:51 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 9:51 AM in response to FNP7

    FNP7, it seems like your eyes are even more sensitive to the LEDs than I do...

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Mar 28, 2012 9:57 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 9:57 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    It's interesting, isn't it, how this varies from person to person?

    Personally, comfort wise, I would put flicker free LED at the top, even above AMOLED and flicker free CCFL.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Mar 28, 2012 10:00 AM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 10:00 AM in response to @MuDaeBoJongShin

    Indeed, there's something about the way the iPhone camera captures images and video one pixel at the time that makes flicker (via scan lines) easily discernable.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Mar 28, 2012 10:15 AM in response to CoreLinker
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 10:15 AM in response to CoreLinker

    CoreLinker, may I know which product that has caused you eye strain? (sorry if you have mentioned that before, I'm too lazy to go back this thread to check..) And have you checked whether it has PWM with the simple method?

     

    The reason I asked that is because the MacBook Airs that MuDaeBoJongShin and I had used both appear to have flicker free LED backlight, and yet we both found them uncomfortable to look at.

    I'm now thinking that there maybe things other than the flickering LEDs that are causing the eye strains.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Mar 28, 2012 11:54 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 28, 2012 11:54 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    I didn't come here because of problems with Apple hardware, I came across this thread even before I started posting when I was having trouble trying to find a TV which I could comfortably watch.

     

    I didn't find one, and in the meantime have zeroed in on the problem which was plaguing me, the one of flicker. Flicker really is THE element with which I have trouble, be it from CCFLs or LEDs. Flickering backlights have caused me trouble, flicker free ones haven't (so far). Of course, this seems to be different with others.

     

    I came to this thread because I became really interested in researching the problem, and because I am interested in purchasing an iMac. Discussion since I joined has prompted me to spend time at Apple centers whenever I get time, just to be sure. So far, I am still ready to take the plunge. I have an iPad 1 which I love.

     

    I am really interested in what is Apple cooking that is causing you all grief, and is it really Apple's fault or have they done all they can (like fixing the flicker), and if they haven't, what is it that they could do and are they even aware.

     

    Next time I'm at an Apple center I will try a MacBook Air for about 45 minutes (so far I haven't used one for longer than 10 minutes), to see if there is any problem that I can feel.

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