RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by MauiTechnoGeek2,

    MauiTechnoGeek2 MauiTechnoGeek2 Jun 16, 2012 2:17 PM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 16, 2012 2:17 PM in response to Eric Leung1

    This is a key discovery – that there IS an adjustment to the screen that eliminates the eye strain.  I have a suggestion for the next experiments to take to better isolate the cause.  You did essentially four treatments.  The thing to do is to sample points in between your non-eye-strain point, and the normal eye-strain point:

     

    1. Half Brightness -> Full Brightness

    2. No Red -> Full Red

    3. No Blue -> Full Blue

    4. Fluorescent Lamp -> No Lamp

     

    We already know that ten minutes of 1+2+3 causes eye strain.  I would do six experiments:  1, 2, 3, and 1+2, 1+3, 2+3.  If these are inconclusive, add 4.  If one of these six treatments causes notably more eyestrain than the rest, we've discovered something crucial.

  • by longlivetheskis,

    longlivetheskis longlivetheskis Jun 17, 2012 10:21 AM in response to noelsmart
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 10:21 AM in response to noelsmart

    I had this problem as well. For me, it was a matter of turning the brightness down and just getting used to it (bumping up the time) and some ibuprofin.  I spend a lot of time on Safari, now the majority of my day is spent on the internet. I get migraines, and bad headaches from eye strain. Now I have a problem with my iPod with eye strain headaches/migraines, but when i surf my MBP for prolonged periods of time, I'm fine. It's quite strange.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Jun 17, 2012 10:27 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 10:27 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2

    After trying my green monochrome MacBook Air for some time, I am pretty sure that it is easier to my eyes. It doesn't totally eliminate the eye strain, but it does seem to cause less stress compared with full color.

     

    Like what MauiTechnoGeek2 have suggested, I have also tried making the screen a red monochrome as well as a blue monochrome. I haven't played with that two colors long enough to draw a conclusion, but the green monochrome does look noticeably better than a blue and also red monochrome. It is clearer. Perhaps that's due to our eyes having better sensitiviness to green.

     

    One thing that haven't been well discussed is about the environmental lighting.

    Personally, I believe it is indirectly related to the eye stress caused by the LED screen. Similar to Pixel Eater's experience, I have tried a Cinema Display in the Apple Store and thought it to be ok, only to find it stressful after bringing it back to office.

     

    I think direct fluorescent light (i.e. those you could see the fluorescent tube clearly) would amplify the stress we have on LED screen. It could be even worse if the fluorescent light is the old type that flashes at a relatively low rate.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Jun 17, 2012 10:33 AM in response to longlivetheskis
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 10:33 AM in response to longlivetheskis

    longlivetheskis, may I know how long have you been using your MBP?

     

    There have been reports that some people would get used to the LED screen after some time, and in some case almost totally lose the eye discomfort.

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Jun 17, 2012 10:39 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 10:39 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    I'm pretty religious in my avoidance of fluorescent lighting. I'll buy incandescents on the black market if the hippies ever have their way (I actually doubt it, despite all the buzz). Much to my chagrin I had to do away with my dimly lit evenings. I'm a night owl, but in recent times have found keeping the lights on vital. So I would say its important. Since this is a matter of health that probably extends to everyone, not just sensitized indivudals, I see it as just one more important reason glossy screens are not ideal.

     

    I have read some reports that some people would get used to being upside down after some time, and in some cases almost totally learn to see this way.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Jun 17, 2012 11:10 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 11:10 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    Hahaha, I guess if with good reasons, all the roads on earth are going to be replaced with ones that requires people to walk upside down, I'd hope to be able to walk upside down comfortably too.

     

    Sooner or later, all CCFL displays will be replaced with LED. I honestly do hope my eyes to be able to get used to that so that I don't have to deal with all these troubles I'm currently having. Unfortunately, after trying for so long, I'm still not able to do that (yet?).

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Jun 17, 2012 11:14 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 11:14 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    No problem, by then we're sure to have 30 inch reflective displays and a series of sun tunnels piping fresh, natural light straight to your desk ;(

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Jun 17, 2012 11:22 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jun 17, 2012 11:22 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    LOL

     

    Speaking of that, a huge PixelQi display does is something to look forward for.

  • by SimonStokes,

    SimonStokes SimonStokes Jun 18, 2012 2:42 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 18, 2012 2:42 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    I'm so glad I found this thread. I've been having terrible headaches / migraines for several months now and I've finally confirmed that it's all down to my Macbook's screen. I really don't know what to do as I need to use the Macbook every day for work on the move so an external monitor isn't the answer. I wake up every day feeling really groggy and with a slight headache (or migraine if I'm unlucky) and it just gets worse throughout the day.

     

    I'd be very interested to hear of any improvements when using the retina Macbooks as I would consider one if so. Anyone had a good shot at it yet?

  • by cadillaczak,

    cadillaczak cadillaczak Jun 19, 2012 9:11 PM in response to SimonStokes
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 19, 2012 9:11 PM in response to SimonStokes

    HEre is an ODD thing....I worked on a 2012 macbook pro for the last two years. I could sit at it for 10-12 hours with NO issues. Thursday, I went and got the new macbook air. I can't even use it for 20 minutes without getting eye strain.

     

    ANy ideas? suggestions? i thought the displays were basically the same? both are glossy.

     

    Having headaches and my eyes hurt bad!

  • by Skribilo22,

    Skribilo22 Skribilo22 Jun 19, 2012 9:19 PM in response to cadillaczak
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jun 19, 2012 9:19 PM in response to cadillaczak

    That's very interesting.  By 2012 model, do you just mean the current model that has been out since late 2008?  At any rate, your experience seems to suggest that some models (maybe even some individual computers) cause this problem a little more.  I hope that at some point a solution is offered for all of us since most computer companies do seem to be moving the way of LED.

  • by cadillaczak,

    cadillaczak cadillaczak Jun 19, 2012 9:17 PM in response to Skribilo22
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 19, 2012 9:17 PM in response to Skribilo22

    oops, yes sorry. was using the 2010...now using the new 2012 macbook air which is causing the issues

  • by Skribilo22,

    Skribilo22 Skribilo22 Jun 19, 2012 9:24 PM in response to cadillaczak
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jun 19, 2012 9:24 PM in response to cadillaczak

    Haha whoops I already edited as I figured that you just meant an earlier model.  I do know that the Airs I have used (owned by friends) have sometimes seemed particularly harsh, but my friends have always really liked them and never seemed to be affected negatively at all.  I think you can return Macbooks within two weeks of the purcahse date, so if you feel more comfortable with the Pro, then you might want to consider going back to it. I'm just hoping that we can all get to the bottom of this.

  • by MisterMojo,

    MisterMojo MisterMojo Jun 19, 2012 9:42 PM in response to cadillaczak
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 19, 2012 9:42 PM in response to cadillaczak

    The same thing happened to me with an 11" MBA. I got a headache within fifiteen minutes and severe eyestrain that lasted for over eight hours.

     

    My 2011 13" MBP caused me some problems but I made some adjustments and gradually the problem went away. But the symptoms were not nearly as bad as with the MBA.

     

    If you continue to have problems I suggest returning the MBA until you get things sorted out.  If they want to know why you are returning the computer be sure to tell them the reason.

  • by iStrain,

    iStrain iStrain Jun 20, 2012 7:14 PM in response to MisterMojo
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 7:14 PM in response to MisterMojo

    I have 20/20 vision and have been using different macbooks for many years without any issues. However, when I  decided to upgrade my aging personal notebook earlier this year, I encountered problems very similar to what is described in this thread. Since then I spent significant amount of time and resources trying to find a macbook that would work for me. This is what I tried so far:

     

    MacBook, 13", Mid 2009 - no issues

    MacBook Pro, 13",  Mid 2010 - no issues

    MacBook Air, 11", Mid 2011 - eye strain, headaches, motion sickness

    MacBook Air, 13", Mid 2011, panel LP133WP1-TJA1 - eye strain, headaches,  motion sickness

    MacBook Air, 13", Mid 2011, panel LTH133BT01A03 - headaches,  motion sickness

    MacBook Pro 13",  Early 2011 - headaches,  motion sickness

    MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011, panel LTN154BT08 -  motion sickness

    MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011, panel LP154WP4-TLA1 - no issues

     

    In other words, I couldn't use 11" MacBook Air and 13" MacBook Air with LP133WP1-TJA1 LCD panel at all. They were making me dizzy after just a couple of minutes and were causing headaches if I was insisting on using them. 13" MacBook Air with LTH133BT01A03 was a little bit better but I still couldn't use it for too long.  After giving up on MacBook Air, I tried MacBook Pro 13", which was a step in the right direction, but still wasn't good enough. I currently have MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011 with LCD panel LTN154BT08. I use it occasionally for an hour or so after which I feel motion sickness. But here is an interesting part, I also use practically identical MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011 but with a different LCD panel - LP154WP4-TLA1. This notebook was given me by my employer and I spend 8-10 hours a day using it with no discomfort at all.

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