RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by sunbasque,

    sunbasque sunbasque Nov 28, 2012 5:48 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Nov 28, 2012 5:48 PM in response to RMartin111

    Hi guys. Ive been having headaches in the evenings. After I get home, I get on my MBP and im on it till bedtime. Im prone to migraines but it has become a nightly thing behind my left eye. Something made me google "how to set macbook pro screen to prevent headaches" and this was one of the search results. There are obv. a lot of pages in this thread and was wondering what the solution to this problem is? Thanks

     

    ETA: I have Late 2011 version.

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Nov 29, 2012 12:25 AM in response to sunbasque
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 12:25 AM in response to sunbasque

    It's great to see that someone else also has problems with the Dell U2412M. I have a double problem, because I got at the same time, new laptop and new monitor and now also the laptop is giving me severe eye strain. My eyes feel swollen each morning and they are red like I'd be hung over. This is starting to be a huge problem. I ordered another display to home, so that I can take the current to work. There is no chance I'll go to the IT department complaining, that my new test winner Dell laptop & display are causing me eye strain and I need to get a different ones. I'd use my old laptop, but it broke physically.

     

    I think we need to post this issue to the Dell forums as well, please join me. This issue needs attention, as otherwise manufacturers just keep manufacturing displays that give eye strain.

  • by dan98,

    dan98 dan98 Nov 29, 2012 5:57 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 5:57 AM in response to RMartin111

    Simply take it back to your IT department, if they are any good they will take health & safety matters seriously. Most likely they'll simply give them to someone else, and find you something suitable.

    Your health and comfort aren't worth taking risks over.

    Also send them this article so they become more informed:

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm

    Eventually Apple, Dell and all the others will start taking this seriously (probably once lawsuits start happening)

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Nov 29, 2012 6:48 AM in response to dan98
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 6:48 AM in response to dan98

    Yes, this is what you think one would do. But since we only have Dell equipment, there are  no alternatives. And surely, they are not going let people purchase other vendors producst, since it's not in the company policy. I honestly, I don't want to be the guy that got a samsung display because Dell made his eyes hurt. This problem is so rare still, that there is no understanding for this...

  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier Nov 29, 2012 10:25 AM in response to mojarvinen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 10:25 AM in response to mojarvinen

    Dell makes some decent CCFL monitors which probably won't give you any eyestrain.  The U2410 and the U2711 are both CCFL (non-LED backlit) monitors.  The U2711 is quite pricy, but the U2410 isn't too bad.

  • by Harleybros,

    Harleybros Harleybros Nov 29, 2012 10:29 AM in response to mvanier
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 10:29 AM in response to mvanier

    This is a apple forum

     

    please talk Dell somewhere else

    do not waiste our time

     

    thanks

  • by Conan_BC,

    Conan_BC Conan_BC Nov 29, 2012 3:35 PM in response to Harleybros
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 3:35 PM in response to Harleybros

    Frankly, I wouldn't mind hearing about other products than Apple. The eye strain from my iPads is just unbearable, but I need a tablet for work.

  • by Harleybros,

    Harleybros Harleybros Nov 29, 2012 3:37 PM in response to Conan_BC
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 3:37 PM in response to Conan_BC

    This is a Apple forum, is it that difficult ???

  • by Conan_BC,

    Conan_BC Conan_BC Nov 29, 2012 3:47 PM in response to Harleybros
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 3:47 PM in response to Harleybros

    The goal of this forum should be to help Apple users having trouble with the eye strain problem. That includes providing information on other comparable products that do not cause the same problem. The information here helped me avoid the new LED monitors, and I'm thinking of getting Dell U3011 instead...

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Nov 29, 2012 4:51 PM in response to Harleybros
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 4:51 PM in response to Harleybros

    Harley, you need to chill. We are all trying to ease our suffering a little, and frankly a good monitor is completely relevant to the discussion. Your attitude here is a little offputting.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Nov 29, 2012 4:59 PM in response to Conan_BC
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 4:59 PM in response to Conan_BC

    Conan,

     

    I'd love to hear how it works out for you. In fact, I'd love to hear from anyone in here who WAS having eyestrain headaches and such, got a specific monitor, hooked up their Macbook and is now headache free. That would be very helpful for me in particular but for all of us in general.

     

    - Gurm

  • by Harleybros,

    Harleybros Harleybros Nov 29, 2012 5:30 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 5:30 PM in response to Gurm42

    Using the macbook caused severe eyestrain and headache within 10 minutes

    when continuing for half an hour it was no longer possible to drive a car since vision got blurred

    after visiting apple direct several times, getting glasses and havoing my eyes examined from a eyedoctor in the hospital all with no results it was found that the complications were caused by the display of the macbook

     

    3 days ago I got my macbook back from apple withe a new display what no longer flickers and vibrates

     

    to test your display go to : http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~lucas/background.html

     

    when you see flickering of the grey background , and when you zoom in on the screen you see that the screen severely vibrates. Your screen should be replaced by apple as they did with mine this week

     

    The eyestrain and headache is caused since the eyes are severely constantly trying to focus and are trying to sync with the flickerrate.

     

    With the new display now, I have now no more problem as described, I can work for hours

    (apple had to change the display twice)

     

    Note: this was also new to apple and I had to show them several times

     

    al together took me a year to find out and get it resolved

     

    hope this helps

  • by Conan_BC,

    Conan_BC Conan_BC Nov 29, 2012 5:51 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 5:51 PM in response to Gurm42

    Gurm,

     

    One concern though is that the monitor will be connected to a PC (not to a MBP) so it will not be a perfect test. If that is OK with you, I will post my experience with the monitor later. I experience the same severe eye strain when I look at iPads 2 and 3.

     

    Conan

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Nov 29, 2012 6:12 PM in response to Conan_BC
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 6:12 PM in response to Conan_BC

    That's fine. It's not a perfect comparison, but it will be a good start. I will be using both systems (PC desktop and Retina MBP) on a pair of monitors, so whatever I get needs to work for both.

     

    - Gurm

  • by MacAiry,

    MacAiry MacAiry Nov 29, 2012 8:08 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 29, 2012 8:08 PM in response to RMartin111

    I'm usually at my desk with on an old DVI monitor so I did not encounter this issue until I took my 2011 Air on the road. Wow, blinding headache after 20-40 mins! I have resorted to my old Dell laptop for travel, which is annoying because portability was one of my reasons for getting the Air.

     

    I use a number of laptops, tablets and phones on the road. Only this Air screen causes this bleary, fuzzing, blinding headache.

     

    I suppose now I'm stuck using the Air as an expensive Mac Mini -- I'll only use it at my desk connected to a 'safe' monitor.

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