External firewire 800 disk: Raid or non Raid?

Hi all,

I am currently about to by a new external firwire 800 hard disk to replace my firewire 400 200GB Maxtor. I mainly use this disk for timemachine backups and all my final cut express scratch area and work area. I am working with AVCHD video and looking to expand the storage and speed of this disk. I have narrowed my options down to two. They are both high quality options. I will be buying the enclosure and hard disks seperatly to ensure I get a good enclosure and good quality hard disk drive.

Enclosure options:

1. http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hdd3/pleiades/pd_scombo.
Pleiades Super S-Combo, FireWire 400/800, USB 2.0, and eSATA interfaces. This enclosure uses Oxford 934DSb or Oxford 924DSb chipset. This is a single drive enclosure and non Raid. I would put a 1TB disk in this enclosure.

2. http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hddmulti/taurus/pdd_raid2
Taurus Raid II enclosure. FireWire 400/800, USB 2.0 and USB 1.0 interfaces. This enclosure uses Oxford 934DSb or Oxford 924DSb chipset. This is a dual drive enclosure and Raid 0 and 1. I would put a two 500GB disks in this enclosure. But will use with mirroring such that a copy of data will reside on each disk. Whilst this will reduce the overal capacity to 500GB I will have the extra redundancy should a drive fail. From which I can just replace the failed drive.

I am aware that using Raid mirroring will slow down the data transfer to the disk enclosure but I think this should be ok for AVCHD editing for my purposes. Cost wise there is not much difference between the two options. In both options I will go for either Seagate Baracuda drive or Samsung Spinpoint.

Would like to know what your thoughts are?

Which options would you go for?

Message was edited by: Just-Karma

iMac 2.6GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Sep 5, 2008 2:28 AM

Reply
9 replies

Sep 5, 2008 2:43 AM in response to Just-Karma

I know nothing about RAID setups so why am I answering you ?

Well MartinR has written a bit about them in the past and some of it may be useful to you. Check out these threads for Martin's replies:-

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7485130&#7485130

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7637057&#7637057

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7426811&#7426811

Sep 5, 2008 3:54 AM in response to Just-Karma

I am deliberately answering the question from your other post here so as not to put off replies to that post.

Speaking generally, the quality of any manufacturer is only as good as the device you have.

Take LaCie....... some people swear by them and others swear at them depending on the person's experience.

So far all my friends and myself have had nothing but excellent service (from LaCie), whilst others on these forums have occasionally slated them after having a number fail.

If people are worried about devices failing they shouldn't buy Macs according to a distant nephew of mine. He has his own IT company and keeps warning his parents (who use MacBook Pros) not to buy Macs, or if they do, get the longest warranty they can find. (They have had a number fail but staunchly continue buying them).

In his extensive experience with both Macs and Windows he states that Macs have a superior operating system but inferior, less reliable hardware.

So reading good reviews is no guarantee that you will be able to replicate the experience.

Sep 5, 2008 6:48 AM in response to Just-Karma

Hi,
You can read my other notes on RAID that Ian so kindly referenced above.

With an iMac, FW800 and 7200 rpm drives you have plenty of bandwidth for video editing with FCE, regardless of whether you're editing DV, HDV or AVCHD (note: with HDV and AVCHD you are actually editing Apple Intermediate Codec). So you're not going to see any benefit of using RAID for speed purposes.

I'd submit that your first order of business beyond online scratch disk space should be adequate offline backup. RAID does not give you that. If you're going to invest, I'd suggest completely separate drives for your scratch disk and backup. By that I mean physically separate drives in their own cases. Your scratch drive of course needs to be online, however your backup drive should truly be offline (disconnected, powered off) except when you are making a backup. Otherwise you don't have a truly safe backup.

TimeMachine is a wonderful innovation and very helpful for most people. However, it's not a substitute for offline backup. And, anyway, you should turn TimeMachine OFF while you are capturing, editing, rendering or exporting with FCE - in other words, turn it off whenever you're using FCE.

Sep 5, 2008 7:17 AM in response to MartinR

Hi Martin,

Some very interesting points.

I will now make sure Timemachine is off when using FCE and I actually never thought about that one. Thank you.

Seems from your comments I should duplicate my external disk x 2. And probablly not consider the Raid option. Therefore go for the 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache disk in Firewire 800 enclosure. And use this for FCE project work and scratch space and import space. Further to this I should buy a second 1TB disk in an external enclosure to have as my offline backup system. This disk would only be powered to back up the other 1TB FCE work disk.

Is my understanding correct?

Sep 5, 2008 12:56 PM in response to Just-Karma

Hi again,
Yes, that's the idea. I'm suggesting 2 separate drives, whether they are 500GB, 750GB or 1TB is up to you. When you back up, FW800 will enable transfer of about 2GB per minute, you can use that as a guide for how much time a total backup would take. Be sure to format them as Mac OS Extended before you start using them ... many drives come from the factory formatted as FAT32.

Sep 5, 2008 6:17 PM in response to MartinR

OK, so I've had dinner and some wine ... let me restate some thoughts about backup ...

RAID mirroring is an effective way to protect yourself against a certain kind of fault ... that is, the loss of one of the two drives in the mirrored array. I do not consider that to be real backup, but it is a protection against disk failure. And there is definitely convenience in having your primary drive duplicated on the second drive in the array, in background, all the time, without any intervention on your part. The risk, however, is that most faults originate from user actions or software faults, not hard drive failure; and in a mirrored array, if you inadvertently delete a critical file, well, it's gone from both drives; same if the disk catalog becomes corrupted, in which case you lose everything on both drives. (Note: this can and does happen. Imagine my shock when iMovie was reconnecting to media and in the process got into a loop that eventually took down the disk catalog on my primary data drive ... ooops .... good I had an offline backup ... and hooray for ProSoft Data Rescue II !!)

That's where offline backup becomes important. With truly offline backup you minimize the risk of losing a file because of some user or software fault. That is because the drive is not online except when you are making your backup. The benefit is a significantly higher level of protection. The cost is the long time it can take to backup a drive that contains a lot of data. 500 GB of data, backed up over FW800, can take on the order of 4 hours to back up. That's quite a cost in time and the risk that something untoward might happen during those 4 hours.

The point is, using multiple levels & types of backup is a very good idea.

Sep 8, 2008 3:42 AM in response to MartinR

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your thoughts. You have raised some very good points and I think I have decided that the best way forward for me is to get a new external FW800 1TB disk and I can use my existing 200GB FW400 as offline a back up until I get a second FW800 1TB.

Question for you I want to buy seperate hardisk and enclosure that way I have know I have a good hard disk in the encliosure. However finding companies who sell hard disk enclosures that have FW800 in the UK is difficult. The only two I know off are www.atlastsolutions.com and www.span.com do you know of any others that you could recomend?

I am thinking in buying a Mac Power Pleiades Super S-Combo http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hdd3/pleiades/pd_scombo have you used one of these? Are they any good, what's your thoughts?

Thanks again.

Sep 12, 2008 1:09 AM in response to Just-Karma

Hi all,

Ok so I decided to not go done the raid mirriring route. Instead I finally made a decision and boughts a Macpower FW800 enclousre which uses the Oxford 934 chipset and a Samsung HD103UJ 1TB Serial ATA 3.0 Gbps
buffer memory32 MB hard disk.

The enclosure is excellent quality and the disk access is very quick via FW800. The disk itself is very quiet and also great for Final Cut with my HD editing. Only noise the disk makes is upon power up other than that it is very quiet.

I have partitioned th disk into two 500GB's. One partition is used for time machine backups and the other is the Final Cut scratch space.

I plan to buy another enclosure and 1TB disk and parition into two 500GB's also. I plan to use one of the 500GB's for Super Duper clone of iMac system hard disk and the second for cloning/backing up the scratch Final Cut space. This second disk and enclosure will be my offline backup system and will not be powered all the time.

Details of the elcousre and hard disk are provided below. I purchased them in the UK. Enclosure was purchased from www.span.com and hard disk from www.ebuyer.com. Whilst span can sell disks in the enclosure you can save yourself a little money and buy seperatly from ebuyer and install yourself.

Enclosure:
http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hdd3/pleiades/pd_scombo

Hard disk:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productmodel.do?group=72&type=61&subt ype=63&model_cd=249&tab=fea

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External firewire 800 disk: Raid or non Raid?

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