Apple Intermediate codec or Pro Res 422

Just out of interest, is there a clear winner between capturing using AIC or PR 422 when working with HDV footage? The final output will be a SD DVD. I am assuming that AIC will create smaller files?

If I capture using either, can I still use idvd or will compressor > studio Pro be the only route for me?

Thanks
Stuart

macpro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Oct 13, 2008 2:00 AM

Reply
8 replies

Oct 13, 2008 3:33 AM in response to mr bluefin

Is there a clear winner between capturing using AIC or PR 422 when working with HDV footage?


Yes. (For me) ProRes 422 is the clear winner. AIC could almost be considered a legacy codec now for most Final Cut Pro users. Not just because of the clearly superior quality of ProRes 422 and its better color sampling when dealing but also for other obvious reasons such as that captures to ProRes 422 retain timecode whereas captures to AIC do not.

I am assuming that AIC will create smaller files?


Correct. AIC, like ProRes 422, does not encode at a fixed datarate but rather a variable one so a direct datarate comparison is not possible. However, side by side comparissons show that AIC has the heavier filesize compression. (One users test showed that an identical 15 second clip encoded to AIC was 175MB versus 216Mb for the ProRes 422 encoding).

If I capture using either, can I still use idvd...


Yes

Oct 13, 2008 6:02 AM in response to Andy Mees

Thanks Andy,a lovely clear precise answer.
Wow be jesus, thats a lot of file isn't it? over 51 gig per hour of capture compared to 13 gig for SD.

As the end result is a SD DVD, is there still a quality benefit to using 422 when compared to iLink down converting the 15 hours of footage from the camera from HDV into SD at the time of capture?

Just thought I would ask as I am about to commence a commercial job and now is the time to ask!

Thanks
stuart

Oct 13, 2008 5:55 PM in response to mr bluefin

I've not done the tests myself, so this isn't first hand knowledge ... but the current collective wisdom seems to say that the in camera downconverts are not going to give you the better quality. The workflow seems to make most people happiest when creating SD DVD's from their HD masters is to use ProRes 422 as the intermediate.

Question for you ... why are you capturing as anything other than HDV? If you have FCP6 then you can capture as HDV (maintaining the pristine quality of the original, plus its low datarate/small filesizes) and edit using the native codec +but with your rendering using ProRes 422+. That way you get the best of both worlds. Export your edit master as ProRes422 and burn your DVD's from that (and for safety/backup you can conform a copy back to HDV tape too).

Here's a tutorial from Ken Stone's website on the mastering to ProRes for SD DVD thing:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/hdv_timeline_to_sddvd.html

Oct 15, 2008 1:23 AM in response to Andy Mees

The honest answer Andy is that I recently attended a mac training session and I was advised that the best workflow for HDV from my Z1 was to capture in HDV, create an easy setup choosing HDV 1080i50, in Audio/Video settings choose apple Pro res 422, choose capture preset HDV pro res 422.
Edit, export to Studio pro via compressor.

Are you suggesting there is a better workflow or better presets for me to work in?
I have FCP 6 btw.
You say edit using native codec and render using 422. Can you suggest the settings for me to do this?

I haven't yet edited anything in HDV yet as my previous work was filmed in DV CAM and captured/edited as anamorphic SD and out put via iDVD.

I have a client who is willing to let me experiment and compare HDV against DV Cam on this next project so I really want to give it the best chance without making a rod for my own back going forward. Bigger files sizes I can put up with as long as it doesn't slow me down too much and offers an improved quality to that of my usual DV cam work.

Am I making sense?

Oct 15, 2008 7:30 AM in response to mr bluefin

Gotcha ... well there's nothing wrong with that workflow per se. My suggestion is only that one doesn't need to transcode everything prior to capture but rather only those sections that are actually used in the final edit (ie transcode it at export). Every action has its pro's and cons tho, the capture as ProRes method would result in media files around 6x bigger than that of HDV or DV ... as long as you have the storage capacity to handle that, and as long as those drives are sufficiently fast enough to deal with the vastly increased data rate (for possibly multiple simultaneous streams of the same during editing) then you're good to go. With the right equipment, editing in native ProRes is a breeze. The capture as HDV and edit as HDV (with renders as ProRes) means much smaller file sizes / lower data rates, so more modest equipment can easily handle it. The downside would be that when rendering in the timeline (or for export) your render times would be slightly longer as the app still needs to deal with the more computationally intensive HDV codec as its source (although the target for the render is the less intensive ProRes) ... of course, this is still very much faster than rendering/conforming back to HDV!

The choice ultimately is yours, and if your client is happy to let you experiment then I'd encourage you to do so and see which works best for you and your set up. I know of those who do exactly as you've been advised in your training, others who's preference is to capture as native HDV and then edit with that directly in a fully ProRes timeline ... but for me, my preferred workflow is as follows:

Choose the appropriate HDV Easy Setup and then Log and Capture the footage.
Create and open a new sequence, open the Sequence Settings window > Render Control tab and set the Render codec to ProRes 422
Edit ... and when the edit is complete choose Export > Quicktime Movie w/ settings as Apple ProRes 422 ( +not Current Settings+ )
Take that exported movie into Compressor (or DVDSP) for making your SD DVD

Oct 16, 2008 1:10 PM in response to mr bluefin

My experience with HDV is that FCP has a hard time retaining media links with the files and will lose track of file names so that the relink window shows only a blank and you have to manually locate the media file. When I convert to AIC, the problem goes away once I relink the files. That is the main problem I see with HDV. I have not used Pro Res 422 because the files are so huge.

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Apple Intermediate codec or Pro Res 422

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