Mac Book Pro (Late 2008) and glossy screen

I know three people (designers and editors) who have bought MacBook Pros since the update and they all opted for buying the previous gen MacBook because the glossy screen was a deal breaker. Personally, I don't want one either. I had a laptop with a glossy screen a few years ago and it was a nightmare getting the colors on my designs right.

all good points. The pdf was also very interesting, though I think the eizo pdf understated the importance of the non-glare screen for pro photo editing. It skirted the issue a bit. Also, I think the heightened contrast (the vibrancy) really does affect the perception of color. how can it not?

Yes, and we are at our computers more than eight hours a day. So this issue of strain is truly a factor. While it's important to follow TCO suggestions of getting up and moving away from the monitor every so often during the day to avoid a host of physical problems, the reality of the pressures of the work, and deadlines, dictate an entirely different behavior. This is the reality of the pro user, and something that separates the pro from the casual user.

This new marketing direction is toward the casual user and the computer enthusiast who is not using the computer at work ... for work. You are right to raise the questions you do in the manner you do. It's spot on.

After using an Intel iMac (the final non-glossy version) for a trial period of one year, I was just about to replace all my Dell Precision Workstations and large Dell monitors with a MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro with Cinema Display. I had already seen many pc monitors and portable laptops go the way of glossy. I was looking forward, but waiting for the new MacBook Pro 17" with a faster processer and user removable hard drive, and also new version of the Cinema Display (hoping for some updates ... like, for example, an updated panel with higher bit depth). In addition, I was hoping there would be an similar update to Mac Pro, which I was planning to buy for my main desktop .. hoping for the new processors. I was annoyed that Apple didn't indicate when these were coming, but I sat tight waiting.

When the new MB and MBP 15 came out, followed by the new downgrade to the Cinema Display (the disappointing 24" monstrosity) with its glossy screen and crappy sound which I can't imagine anyone would want to rely upon, I suddenly realized that the marketing direction had taken a tremendous about face from a previous commitment to PRO use. I don't think Apple needed to do this, and by that, I mean that Apple could have assured users that there would options for different models for the PRO user.

Now silence as to their intentions doesn't prove their abandonment, because they have always been secret about their intentions. But it does leave many of us, who have been waiting for so long for update before a big purchase, high and dry and on the rocks, so to speak, feeling that ship has turned around. Yes, it does appear they are turning all their attention to the casual user. Those of us who who do audio, video and image editing for our clients are now feeling the "sea change."

I think there is some truth in your statement that they risk losing more than the Pro market by abandoning the Pro market. But the main thing Apple needs to understand is that will lose the Pro market if they make consummer level goods only. If there is not an improved MacBook Pro, the replacement won't be purchased just because it is only alternative. I will look for non-glare portable, and buy that.

I will certainly purchase a Mac Pro, but as of now, it's certainly looking like I won't be purchasing any new Apple Glossy Cinema displays. Of course, should Apple fail to keep developing its software for Pro use, there may be no reason at all to stay on the Apple platform, and I will cease to be a Mac user. I never thought it would come to this. I thought Apple cared about its user base. It appears, however, that your correct that this has now become simply a numbers game for Apple. Okay then, let them sell toys. Toys are great for those who want to watch movies and play games. That's not what I bought my computers for, and not what I bought my iPhone for (I don't play games on it, I interface it with my Exchange Server). Sad that Apple wants to become a toy company. And you may be right that it could prove their undoing - though I don't care. All I care about is finding the right pro gear for my editing. Here's hoping there are some people at Apple who talk to the people in marketing who are failing to provide the options we desire to purchase.

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It worked for them, okay, all right. But it didn't work for me. After the new glossy iMac came out, I bought the previous non-glossy version from the remaindered stock from a source other than Apple. I am very glad I did.

My daughter bought an older version of MBP to replace her damaged one. My wife was not so lucky. Her school replaced her MB with newer glossy one. She said to me a few days ago: "I finally know why you don't like glossy screens!" Apple may do better in the sort term, but they are going to find that they will begin to lose the respect of their user base who use computers for many hours of the day.

Yes the numbers may be good in the short term, and non-glossy users may be bluffed into buying Glossy screens. but I am sure that "many" of those coming from the non-glossy world will not like them. That can't be good for Apple in the long term.

Sohaila wrote:
A side note, you guys recall when iMac went glossy/glass? At first there were a lot of talk, and now we have all gotten used to it.

I respectfully disagree wholeheartedly. I have an iMac 21" G5 with iSight (circa November 2005),and my previous roommate, who I convinced to switch to Mac, owns the iMac with aluminum body. So, I had the opportunity to compare them side-by-side, and there is no contest: the LCD in my iMac is superior. Additionally, my neighbor at work who also owns an iMac G5 agrees on this point.

The two flaws to the newer iMac display, that you claim we have "gotten used to," are a severely reduced viewing angle and horrendous reflection. I believe that my roommate probably likes the "pop" of the color, but I know that he was frustrated by the poor viewing angle and reflection. He had to move a lamp in his room just so he could watch movies undisturbed.

In the end, did my roommate survive with a glossy screen? Of course! For me, as an amateur photographer and a professional designer (my former roommate is neither), I could also survive using a glossy screen, but I would never willingly choose one. I had been waiting for this MacBook Pro update, but now I will consider either a MacPro and a non-Apple monitor, or change over completely to a PC.

As Windows improves, the premium we pay for a beautiful case may grow too great.

The LCD display in the G5 iMac you're referring to is an IPS panel, whereas the LCD display in the 20" aluminum iMac is a TN panel. The construction and performance of the two types are significantly different, so a direct comparison is not relevant. In any case, the performance of a TN panel in relation to an IPS panel has nothing to do with the glass panel.

I've now had my 2.53 GHz MBP for two weeks, and the graphics performance has been excellent thus far. The IPS panel combined with the 9600M GT GPU provides excellent graphics. Glare and reflections have pretty much been non-existent during normal use. How any graphics designer can say these computers are unsuitable for professional work is beyond me.

A lot of people are spending a lot of time hypothesizing about potential problems that don't actually exist, or that are exaggerated well beyond reasonableness. Nothing beats experience. Listen to the people who actually own them and use them every day.

I agree the new glossy screen is a disgrace. The reflection is awful although not as bad as some Dell and HP notebooks. For those who do not believe look at the picture that the Apple web, http://www.apple.com/, site sports for the notebook (there is nice reflection in the right hand corner). Although, I am complaining, Apple notebooks rock and are still the best. It is unfortunate that there is not an option to have a choice of gloss or non-gloss like you have on the 17'. For those non-doubters go to the stores and see yourself that glossy screens are absolutely horrific when compared to previous apple products.

For what it's worth, was in an Apple Store yesterday, and was talking with one of the sales people. He said they have been hearing a lot of complaints from their Pro Users, and he thought Apple would address the issue. Not putting a lot of faith into what he said, but at least the word is getting out that the new glossy screens aren't the best for pro's. Ended up buying a previous generation MacBook Pro for just this reason.

This is about the most rational review of the glossy screen issue I've read so far:

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=5

Most Photographers I know, wouldn't do their important corrections on a laptop. A laptop screen is generally similar to an iMac 20" TN screen, and have less accurate color than the higher end screens.

They are fine for quick work in the field, but back where you do your final work, you would just get a monitor to go with it. BTW, I myself still use a 24 matt, but I know pro's who use the glossy's and don't have a problem.

I just got me the older MBP with the matte screen and 2 FW ports, waiting till Apple adds a matte option to the line before I 'upgrade'.

I'm also using three Cinema Displays; should those go glossy in the future, and start using the silly port the new 24" does, Eizo will get my business.

Finally, I was able to solve the problem with the glossy display !!
How ? Now, I was able to return my MBP and switched back to my 'old' MBP. I'm so glad I haven't sold it.
This was my first and my last experiment with glossy displays. I had two work two days with my new one in a room with lots of windows and I will never do that again with a glossy display.

Hi

I am not an advanced user, professional or what you like to call it, but I have been looking into the http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/AperturePhotographyFundamentals.pdf and read about additive vs subtractive colors.

The perception I had of this text, I do not know anything, is that it is a big difference between these two color light sources. Can any display, glossy or matte, bridge this color divide? How?

/jonas

Its reassuring that they will work but is there a hub or adapters for the different plugs as I often need to use more than one at the same time?