No Firewire; many possible problems, continued

"Hey PC! how are you?"
"What's up Mac?"
"it was my birthday yesterday!"
"Happy birthday! hope you got some nice presents!"
"actually I did, my girlfriend got me a very nice Hi Def camcorder"
"Oh cool"
"actually PC I am a bit sad, maybe you can help me"
"Sure what happened?"
"My dad had an argument with my mom, he left us and he forgot to leave the firewire"
"too bad Mac"
"Maybe PC you can help me with your firewire - without it I feel locked out... and I can't tell my girlfriend I have no firewire anymore... she'd get upset... you know the camcorder she got me is a tape one - she said that is the better quality... i cant tell her i can't sick it in..."

I was hoping to be able to buy a Macbook with firewire around christmas, so i waited for the release of the new macbook all those rumours were talking about. My main hobbies regard music and video. I have spent a lot of money on an audio interface with FW and of course on a DV camera, by working overtime for months and being patient. Chopping the FW off the new macbooks forces me either to consider to buy a MBP, or to buy a PC laptop running Vista or even capable of running OSX86. I find Apple's move very annoying. It is the kind of move Microsoft did by forcing everyone to upgrade their PCs just to be able to run Vista. I will not be forced neither to sell my Audio and Video equipment, nor to spend twice the amount of money for the MacBook Pro.

The option of buying an older mac is not really an option. Faster graphics are a must if you run CPU-hungry applications on a system with shared memory graphics.

congratulations, you just lost 1 customer.

PS. A Macbook Pro with just 1 firewire port is a joke.

PS.2 I already posted this message but i guess on the wrong thread.. sorry.

Good to hear I am not the only one with a footprint problem even with the 13" model 😉 In fact, I was considering the MacBook 13" when it first came out, borrowed from a friends, just to find, it doesn't fit where my 12" fits.... which is why I am hesitant to buy it even now...

Even though I'd grind my teeth it 12" doesn't reappear on the scene and get up to 13", 15" is in size, what the lack of firewire is for the 13", both a no deal to me.

Dirk

The 12" aluminum powerbook really is the perfect size for traveling. Mine has accompanied me all over the world for months at a time, easily fitting into shoulder bags that would never hold a MacBook. Guess I'll hold onto it until it bites the dust and hope there's a reasonable alternative by the time that happens.

my words 😉

Dirk

I agree that Apple removing FireWire had set ablaze a myriad of problems for its consumer base. I for one have seen people who can no longer use Target-Mode boot up on their new Macbooks which can be very problematic when trying to revive the machine. The other solution to do this is an EFI enabled Linux boot disc.

Apple without Firewire is not Apple.

deltatux

I think everyone has expressed their frustrations many times over in a very consistent way. There really is one voice here on this bizarre move by Apple.

However is this doing any good? Are we any closer to a solution or even any feedback from Apple? It would be great to get some official response from those on high that there might be some light at the end of the tunnel, some glimmer of hope or that they have heard our gnashing and wailing adn are willing to take it into consideration in their product strategy either through a product update or a 3rd party solution encourage by Apple.

Just a few points to summarise how I feel:

1) People keep saying Apple laptops are premium products and compare them to BMW. Well, premium PCs (laptops) have FireWire ports. If Apple want to pitch themselves as providing premium products, then they need to make sure that their products are premium.

2) It is clear that different people use FireWire for different things. I use it a lot for external storage which is much, much faster than USB (FW400 vs. USB 2). Others use it for audio (as a hobby) and others (like me) have MiniDV cameras that use FW. My camera works fine and it's not being replaced so I NEED firewire to use iMovie. End of.

3) Some people have tried to argue that FireWire is a pro interface. What utter rubbish. It's an interface. Sometimes it's used on pro gear and sometimes on consumer electronics (like Mini DV). USB is also used on Pro gear, like pen and tablet devices, etc. So both FW and USB are used at all ends of the spectrum.

4) We are now entering a major global downturn, nae recession. Coming back the BMW analogy that people like to peddle, BMW have just taken a massive hit on their turnover and profit as people are not buying premium cars. The same WILL happen to Apple. They have already cut back on laptop orders from their suppliers, if Web news is anything to go by. They are making a rod for their own back and excluding FW and not having a matte screen option are just two catalysts.

5) There are those that keep banging on about the old White MacBook, for those who still need FireWire. It's too expensive for what it is. It's old and slow (apart from the FW, ironically) and no one is going to buy last years model at the prices Apple are charging. Others suggest getting a MacBook Pro. Well, they are too big (and expensive) for many.

6) Someone has already made the excellent suggestion to scrap the whole MacBook and MacBook Pro thing, and simple sell MacBooks with different screens, HDDs, screen finish, ports etc. and be done with it. I like that idea.

7) I was going to buy a MacBook for my wife, as she's taken to using my two year old MBP. Well, no FireWire, no deal. I have now got a 12" Asus EePC for myself, for surfing and email. I use it on the move (going to work) with a T-Mobile 3G modem, and my wife now uses the MBP during the day with her own user account. I've saved money. Apple lost a £900+ sale. Too bad (for them).

{quote:title=SC::UK wrote:}{quote}
Just a few points to summarise how I feel:

1) People keep saying Apple laptops are premium products and compare them to BMW. Well, premium PCs (laptops) have FireWire ports. If Apple want to pitch themselves as providing premium products, then they need to make sure that their products are premium.

And not just premium units, either. You can get a laptop which has FireWire for US$800... but not from Apple. I know. I bought one instead of buying a MacBook. It's a Toshiba Satellite, and it's not a high-end system by any means. But it has FireWire, and it less than half the price of a MacBook Pro. And I already have most of the software I'd be needing for it, as my old laptop was also a Windows machine. I'd intended to buy a MacBook to replace it... right up until the new MacBooks had no FireWire. That made them non-starters right there.

2) It is clear that different people use FireWire for different things. I use it a lot for external storage which is much, much faster than USB (FW400 vs. USB 2). Others use it for audio (as a hobby) and others (like me) have MiniDV cameras that use FW. My camera works fine and it's not being replaced so I NEED firewire to use iMovie. End of.

I have a lot of FireWire equipment which still works and see no reason to replace it. I also need FireWire on the computer to talk to that equipment. Perhaps later, when the equipment ages and is replaced, I will no longer need FireWire, but until then I have to have it. And I get really annoyed at the caviler suggestion that I just replace everything.

3) Some people have tried to argue that FireWire is a pro interface. What utter rubbish. It's an interface. Sometimes it's used on pro gear and sometimes on consumer electronics (like Mini DV). USB is also used on Pro gear, like pen and tablet devices, etc. So both FW and USB are used at all ends of the spectrum.

FireWire is on a vast selection of items ranging from cameras to hard drives. Many of those items are Apple products; early model iPods, for example. We're to junk 'em just because Apple can't be bothered to include FW on new machines? (and since when are iPods 'Pro' systems?)

4) We are now entering a major global downturn, nae recession. Coming back the BMW analogy that people like to peddle, BMW have just taken a massive hit on their turnover and profit as people are not buying premium cars. The same WILL happen to Apple. They have already cut back on laptop orders from their suppliers, if Web news is anything to go by. They are making a rod for their own back and excluding FW and not having a matte screen option are just two catalysts.

Yep. It's just plain arrogance. Apple is not the only company which makes acceptable products.

5) There are those that keep banging on about the old White MacBook, for those who still need FireWire. It's too expensive for what it is. It's old and slow (apart from the FW, ironically) and no one is going to buy last years model at the prices Apple are charging. Others suggest getting a MacBook Pro. Well, they are too big (and expensive) for many.

I can't even find a 'new' white MacBook. So far as I can see they do not exist. Nor can anyone around here tell me where to find one... except online. And I'm not buying a laptop over the internet ever again. I bought the old laptop that way. That was an error which will NOT be repeated.

6) Someone has already made the excellent suggestion to scrap the whole MacBook and MacBook Pro thing, and simple sell MacBooks with different screens, HDDs, screen finish, ports etc. and be done with it. I like that idea.

This will never happen. Pity, it would be a good idea, but that's how it is.

7) I was going to buy a MacBook for my wife, as she's taken to using my two year old MBP. Well, no FireWire, no deal. I have now got a 12" Asus EePC for myself, for surfing and email. I use it on the move (going to work) with a T-Mobile 3G modem, and my wife now uses the MBP during the day with her own user account. I've saved money. Apple lost a £900+ sale. Too bad (for them).

I got a Toshiba instead of the MacBook, and I did it for one reason and one reason only: the Toshiba had FireWire. If there was a MacBook which had FireWire which was available for me to inspect locally before buying I'd almost certainly have gone with the MacBook. There wasn't, so I didn't. Congratulations on becoming Toshiba's marketing department, Apple.

i use my mac to do 'pro' audio, and was waiting for the new macbooks.
i want (need...) a small and light laptop, to bring work with me (nyc, so lots of walking and subways). my plan was to get the new macbook, and an apogee duet (firewire audio interface).

not going to happen, alas. just don't understand apple's thinking. u used to be able to choose between the 12", 15", 17" powerbooks AND the 12" & 14" ibook. now there is less choice (and even the ibooks had firewire).

disappointing.

Whether this thread is doing any good remains to be seen. What we know for sure is that it was started on October 14 and now, almost a month later, it's still going. At the very least, we are definitely making a statement. No other subject thread I know of has resulted in such a sustained, high-volume response. It's possible, of course, that Apple is simply letting the natives blow off steam and really doesn't give a **** what we think. I certainly hope this isn't the case.

Considering this thread is alive and only occasionally edited by the moderators, unlike other threads like for example on the new version of iMovie when it came out, I tend to believe or at least hope, that there may be some concern behind the scene over this issue. Especially since even now new users seem to join in.

Dirk

another issue is that if you use one of the new HD camcorders that use USB iMovie and FC can only import from the SD memory card. if you are in a hurry and you want to just copy the movie files to an external USB drive then iMovie can't simply, easily, efficiently import the AVCHD files.
Thanks so much for compatibility and "it just works".
You can burn a disk image of the memory card on a DVD but what if you use a 8 or 16 GB card?
what if you are in the field and you need to quickly copy the files to yr computer and erase a card to reuse it?
you cant just get a 3 dollar mini DV tape and keep shooting.

Apple jumped on the AVCHD bandwagon without implementing a good workflow [I should be able to just import in iMovie / FC any HD video file stored on an external backup drive without issues].
Apple ditched a multitude of people that rely still on mini DV camcorders... Maybe in 5 years it will be different - but now it is just premature to ditch firewire.

And just 2 USB ports don't cut it on a laptop when many external portable drives need to draw power from 2 USB ports!
how can I import my photos and my videos directly in one of these drives?

It is a workflow hassle.

I mean I saw some average PC laptops - they have so many ports and SD card readers. this is a bit of a Joke . 1300 for a new Macbook - the isolationist laptop.

..I hope so .

I waited a while( while saving hard) for the new MB's to arrive and was really disappointed when I noticed the lack of firewire .

I'd been saving up for a good while , reading extensively all about external firewire audio interfaces / soundcards and the like and it has been 'some' learning curve I can tell you ! , basically that was what I was set to get , macbook with an external firewire card for recording audio I mix using the Serato Scratch Live dj software .also wanted to connect firewire hard drives and a keyboard/mic .

Just cannot do , what I want with a macbook anymore, it seems

The options I appear to have are either I go for a MBP or the white MB , the MBP is overkill for what I need the machine for & as for the whitebook , I didn't get one already as I'm not keen on the known problems with that casing which is why I waited for this revision .

So I'm stuck ( seems I'm not alone either this is all over the internet in audio chatrooms) .......having never used a windows machine ever am not keen on starting now ....I'm not at all sure how to move forward .





Although , I must congratulate Apple for allowing this thread to continue ...usually threads of this nature disappear long before allowed to reach this size .
I hope Apple realizes that most folks are really concerned and have a fair amount of money invested in firewire gear and love to use OSX...

I'm lucky I am just about to start building my home studio , I just don't know if it'll be Mac based now as all the soundcards that are USB based seem to get poor reviews .

what to do ...? OSx86?

Message was edited by: becca jnr

I always carry my black Macbook with me.
I bought it as a discounted closeout more than a year ago for teh same price of a newer white macbook.

I carry it with me all the time.
A friend of mine got mugged at gun point on the Manhattan bridge in NYC one night.
I went to Haiti a month ago for 2 weeks and I brought my Macbook. Nothing got stolen.
I am a freelance photographer and 2K $ is steep for me.

I bought a Canon ZR 930 camcorder for 200 $ 3 or 4 months ago

I don't want to carry with me a 2K $ MBP. It could get stolen. Too expensive to replace. Too heavy and large to carry in my backpack when I ride a bike.
MiniDV tapes can be cumbersome but are still a valid standard while AVCHD support is not mature yet.

I use Adobe Lightroom and Mozilla Thunderbird the most. It is the first time I thought about if my next laptop would be a PC. Hate the idea but I feel the latest Apple offering target just affluent people that drink 4 dollar coffee drinks rather than creative types that count their dollar bills.
The applications that I use the most are available on a PC.

2 USB and a card slot would be the minimum.
or 3 USB and firewire or whatever.
And the hard drives that come with the portables are so tiny when you can buy yourself a 320 GB drive for 100 bucks.
I appreciate that lately I have been to easily upgrade the drives myself...
but just 2 USB2 and no FW...? cheap attitude for something pricey!