No Firewire; many possible problems, continued

Charles Dyer wrote:

I have a lot of FireWire equipment which still works and see no reason to replace it. I also need FireWire on the computer to talk to that equipment. Perhaps later, when the equipment ages and is replaced, I will no longer need FireWire, but until then I have to have it. And I get really annoyed at the caviler suggestion that I just replace everything.

re: replacing everything...

This has always been Apple's operating procedure. The general thinkng is... the faithful finance development (documented btw), after that it's just a matter of selling the new goods to the public.

In the end it's the consumers that decide the fate of a company.

pancenter-

HP also told me that I should simply replace my old MFD. Apparently they no longer supported it under either Leopard or Vista. I attached it to a machine running XP, and got a new MFD... from Brother. Nor will I be buying HP in the future, not if I have any choice in the matter.

I wanted to buy a MacBook, but I needed FireWire. Which means that I have a Toshiba. And that machine will be my main laptop for quite some time to come. Like HP, Apple lost a customer.

Apple ditched a multitude of people that rely still on mini DV camcorders... Maybe in 5 years it will be different

We will need Firewire even more in 5 years.

Firewire is continuing to improve. (Firewire 3200 will be out soon.) Firewire is more relevant than it ever has been.



All of the better 2009 Video Cameras are Firewire.

All analog to digital video converters use Firewire. Audio and Video go in, FireWire comes out.

All of the below audio manufacturers released NEW Firewire equipment in 2008.

Digidesign
Yamaha/Steinberg
MOTU
Lexicon
PreSonus
Apogee
M-Audio
TC Electronic
Focusrite

They have removed a mature, ubiquitous and robust protocol and replaced it with... NOTHING!

Have you ever been in that situation when your girlfriend or wife cheated on you? It is a terrible time. When it happened to me, I called her a whore while still loving her, but the very fact that she cheated on me changed everything. Basically I could no longer trust her, our values had diverged.

I now call Apple a whore. I call Apple a whore because she has changed out of recognition. Not many years ago, Apple relied on her loyal user base, and she delivered functionality we all loved, and we reciprocated by supporting her, and the love affair was strengthened. She did not go the WIndows route to tap the "mass market", she stayed true to her values.

The decision to drop FW from the macbooks has turned these values upside down. She has chosen to court the "mass market" while abandoning her "ex". The "ex" that has stood by her for many years. This signals a change of values for me, and the end of trust.

I am now considering Unbutu/Windows, how sad that I should be pushed to such extremes.

I know this maybe a ridiculous extreme, but what Apple has done in abandoning her loyal user base from a small form factor Apple KNEW we all coveted, is basically evil. Values have indeed changed.

I once bought an HP CD burner back in the 90s. When I upgraded from Windows NT to Windows 2000, I found it wouldn't work. HP told me to buy a new drive. I did, but not from them.

I've not spent a single penny with HP since. I had iPaqs in the Compaq days, but when they merged with HP I switched to HTC phone PDAs. HP will never get any of my money again, and Apple are currently in the same boat from my point of view.

I am now playing with Linux on my old Dell D800. If I can get something that is easy to use (like my EeePC) and does what I need, then I'll move over to that system on future purchases. Times are hard, and I refuse to pay premium prices to a company that no longer provides premium products or service. Simple as that.

Pete Long wrote:> I know this maybe a ridiculous extreme, but what Apple has done in abandoning her loyal user base from a small form factor Apple KNEW we all coveted, is basically evil. Values have indeed changed.

You're analogy is crude, but in the ball park nonetheless.

Apple seems to forget that during the hard times, it was the creative professionals and educational institutions which largely kept the company afloat and in business. Stripping away a port essential to these users is a true kick-in-the-gut from what you thought was a faithful friend.

And don't forget all the companies that put money into developing Firewire hardware and software drivers for the Mac. Apple also forgets that without developer support, there is no Mac OS platform.

It will be hard to forget this one. Can we trust Apple anymore? Short of an official statement of regret and reassuring users Firewire will be supported on all machines for the foreseeable future I really can't see professional users (and more importantly hardware and software developers) providing long term support for the Mac platform.

JeffP. wrote:
It will be hard to forget this one. Can we trust Apple anymore? Short of an official statement of regret and reassuring users Firewire will be supported on all machines for the foreseeable future I really can't see professional users (and more importantly hardware and software developers) providing long term support for the Mac platform.

This is what happens when a company becomes "popular", with the advent of the iPhone and later versions of OSX Macs have entered the mainstream and the end result is often a reduction or loss of the core values that got you there. In order to finance the increased production and development of new models/technology the company has to sell more hardware, in order to do that it has to pander to public taste, usually the lowest common denominator. More glitz, often less functionality. Another thing to look at (a sure sign) is build quality. Seems there is a variety of complaints about the new MB, probably more than I've seen on any recent hardware release.

pancenter

This is extremely well put and very succint. Congratulations.

I think what suprised us all is that Firewire is not considered mainstream or popular, even though it has historically spawned a business differention for Apple.

davewhughes wrote:
This is extremely well put and very succint. Congratulations.

I think what suprised us all is that Firewire is not considered mainstream or popular, even though it has historically spawned a business differention for Apple.

Not that I'm a huge Windows fan, however I do respect the OS considering how mainstream it is and how many thousands of hardware variations it has to work with. We'll see how Apple handles it's newfound popularity. Believe me, if the investors want more return on their dollar you can bet there will be some sacrifice in terms of integrity. How easy do you makes things to use before they start losing functionality?

I'm looking forward to Snow Leopard, should be a much lighter/tighter OS for Intel only machines. Right now OSX is a behemoth, slow and inefficient.

pancenter-

I hope Apple wakes up before it loses ALL of its long time users, all they need to do is offer FireWire as a BTO option. 1 FireWire I/O port. 1 USB 2.x I/O port.

-Apple //GS

why do you want to give up a USB??
actually 3 would be great as I need to plug mem card reader, portable hard drive and maybe something else.
2 USB + FW or card slot. Any portable computer in 2008 for $1000 should offer that!


I wonder how many people did NOT buy the new Macbook at all because of the FW blunder.
Anyway just 2 USB is really bad....

Right. I think the larger issue is that Apple should be adding more expansion options to their products and NOT taking them away.

A PC laptop costing FAR less money than a mac typically comes equipped with 4 USB ports, a Firewire 400 port, memory card reader and an expansion slot.

I mean really Steve, $1300 for a tiny 13" inch screen and 2 USB ports? Gimme us a break already!

Yeah. I would never consider the Macbook Air... probably and iPhone or iPod Touch with some sort of Bluetooth keyboard could do 80 percent of what teh Macbook Air could do.

I plug my SD card reader, my Firewire camera, my Firewire+USB WD portable drive where I keep my iMovie events, my USB2 drive where I keep my images RAW files. Maybe sometimes I would like an external mouse.

Video files and images files are accumulating and in 2008 you need more storage for all this.
So we need to connect more drives and more devices. Some portable drives need to be powered by 2 USB ports [luckily not the USB ones] and I don't want to have to use a powered hub when I am at some café.
I can live with USB 2 to store my image files - but for video editing I connect my WD passport drive with the firewire cable.

in 2008 we need larger drives, more drives, not less options to connect drives.
Anyway it is good

we are in a recession if the Macbook had Firewire it wouldhave been too tempting... So now I can convince myself that it is better to save money and be at peace with it!

the Macbook was like a swiss army knife now it is more like a piece of fancy silverware that you cant use to cut steak or saw wood.

There's an article in MarketWatch yesterday regarding "Firewire's strong presence in notebook PCs." If the link below gets mangled or moderated, you can Google the quoted text:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/FireWires-Strong-Presence-Notebook-PCs/sto ry.aspx?guid={D12CE010-A630-40CF-8373-7B6DBF44C822}

The article erroneously states that "the popularity of FireWire has been registered enthusiastically in the weeks following the decision to remove it from a couple members of the MacBook Pro family of PCs introduced in October." But beyond that small nomenclature error, it's a pretty accurate and positive article.

It notes that the role of Firewire is expanding in HDV camera applications, and also mentions that the number of 1394-equipped set top boxes shipped worldwide is up more than 25 percent in 2008.

Interestingly, the article point out that the IEEE 1394 spec is finding new applications in the industrial and automotive sectors.

Too bad the Macbook won't be able to play in these new arenas. 😟

There's a thread on this topic at Macrumors.com that has over 100,000 reads and more than 2,000 responses.

Come on, Apple, how about some indication that you're hearing all this?

Message was edited by: srjmac

Apple //GS wrote:
I hope Apple wakes up before it loses ALL of its long time users, all they need to do is offer FireWire as a BTO option. 1 FireWire I/O port. 1 USB 2.x I/O port.

-Apple //GS

I agree that this would at least be a solution, but is it the best solution? In a world where $800 PC laptops have Firewire, 3-4 USB ports, Express card slots, 5-in-1 card readers and more, it is really wise for Apple to charge extra for a Firewire port?

Besides, with the aluminum unibody, it'll never happen. They'd have to have a blank opening in the port area and fill it with a fascia that fits your port configuration. You know, just like they do on generic, white-box PCs?

Never happen. Never, never, never. 🙂