Which is the best HD camcorder for iMovie 6?

David,
Enjoyed your reply to my post. As for manual focus lever, an example would be to focus onto say, some berries in front of a brook and then slowly focus on the brook. It is difficult to do with the focus ring.
June loved the picture of your boat & Littlehampton harbour. If I can scrape up enough money we would like to go back for one last hurrah. Oh well!
I have made many, many video's (at least 1.5 hours in length) of lectures & sermons using HD 6. Sent out many DVD's. If I had an HD camcorder, I would still use it in the standard mode for these lectures.
Thank you for your anniversary wish.
David

"..importing a 30 minute tape takes me easily 60 minutes (where does the signal / data go in the meantime...??).."

The data has to be converted from hi-def MPEG-2 (..which has only one real frame for every 15; the others are just jottings of how each frame differs from the others..) into Apple's Intermediate Codec ..in which every "missing" frame is rebuilt.

So as you're importing, video goes into memory - or onto hard disc - is jiggled around in the memory (..to rebuild the imaginary frames..) and is then stored on your hard disc in its new AIC format.

Constantly saving to disc, reading off disc, adjusting and then saving to disc (..repeat again and again..) is what slows down the import.

Having two discs can improve things: one as an internal "scratch" memory SwapDisc (..for immediate capture..) and a second disc for saving the AIC video onto ..then one disc isn't having to do both jobs of storing the temporary import and storing the "converted" import, etc.

Having extra memory also helps - but you don't say which Mac you have, so there's no knowing what's the maximum RAM yours can handle.

The FireWire port isn't the bottleneck (..you can get real-time importing on a fast enough Mac, using the same, normal FireWire 400 connection ..I 'traded up' a couple of years or so ago to a PowerPC quad G5 to get real-time importing..) it's the constant shuffling of video onto and off and onto the hard disc if (a) you don't have enough memory, (b) you don't have a fast enough machine to cope with the import/on-the-fly conversion, (c) you're using just one hard disc to store everything.

(..The user, e.g; Leni Riefenstahl, shouldn't affect the history of the device ..a lens is a lens is a lens. The current Carl Zeiss company is a different Carl Zeiss from the pre-war Carl Zeiss. The original Zeiss was - and is - based in what became Russian-controlled East Germany (..in Jena, near Weimar..) and the Russians took over many of the technicians and lens designers. 'Jupiter', and other, Russian lenses were based on Zeiss know-how. The Americans took other Zeiss staff, and set up a new Carl Zeiss company in what was then West Germany, at Oberkochen. The Zeiss name and designs licensed by Sony take their name from the newer, "western" company..)

Thanks David for your detailed post - I now know why the iMac has these delays. There is also a wider point that HD format is not always necessary, which is often forgotten.

On Leni, this easily opens up a much larger debate, and yes, Zeiss in 1936 is different from what we know now. However, the SLR objectives are by and large based on the original designs - I've been mucking around with the 85mm 24/36 photos, and for portraits, I have never seen crisper / better results. I just find it adds another dimension to these products, as good as they are. And a similar argument can be made (and has been made) about Ferdinand Porsche's links to the Nazis, and the decision to build up the Volkswagen factory to produce the Beetle (and the sports version 356) to give the people of Wolfsburg somethng to do (in the words of the British regional commander).

Products have a design history which may explain their performance, that's all.

BeateW

"..I have a large internal hard-drive and two external hard-drives (250, and 500 GBs respectively), but I can still see that at 1 GB per minute, I would definitely have a storage issue.."

When I found that my G4 laptop couldn't cope with - was too slow at importing - HDV, I bought a "tower" desktop Mac with plenty of room for extra hard discs inside. I added one extra internal for storing photos and finished movies, and added a pair of very fast hard discs arranged as a 'RAID' (..two discs splitting storage between them..) for importing video onto.

So I resolved my storage issue by dedicating a separate hard disc (..or pair of them..) to hold iMovie projects, and then exporting, or offloading, finished projects onto a third disc so that I could erase and re-use the 'importing' disc(s) ready for the next project.

I keep many finished movies on several other external FireWire hard discs which can be plugged in as required.

"..And what happens with those large files when I burn my iMovies to iDVD? Isn't there a 4.5 gb limit with iDVD?.." ..When you burn a DVD, iDVD automatically converts the movie into MPEG-2 format (..the format which is used on normal, standard-definition DVDs). So you don't need to worry about the capacity of a DVD; the 'squeezed' or compressed MPEG-2 format can put 1 hr of best quality material onto a DVD, or 2 hrs of fractionally lower quality onto a DVD. So it doesn't matter that your hi-def video is many gigabytes large ..iDVD will compress it down to whatever running time - up to just under 2hrs - that you specify.

However, note that iDVD will compress it to standard-definition instead of hi-def. By using Roxio's ' Toast' and/or its hi-def plug-in you should be able to burn a hi-def version ..running for maybe 20 mins.. on a normal DVD, or a proper full-length hi-def version on a Blu-Ray disc ..as long as you have a separate Blu-Ray burner.

"..you do not have to use HD even though you are using a HD camcorder -- how does this work?.."

On all tape-based HDV camcorders you can choose to shoot in hi-def HDV or normal DV. But if you shoot normal DV it's rather a waste of money - in my opinion - to have paid for the HDV facility and not to use it. Most (..all?..) AVCHD (memory card or hard disc) camcorders, however, shoot hi-def only, so there's no option to switch down to standard-def.

"..I really don't know which camcorder to get.." ..That's another reason why I, and Forest and others, think that tape-based HDV is a better choice than AVCHD ..it gives you more flexibility, as in:

(a) You can shoot in hi-def HDV or in standard-def DV
(b) You don't need to make any backup 'archive' of your original material, as you'll always have the original tape on which you shot it. (..When memory chips or the hard disc inside a camcorder gets full, where d'you store all the material you've shot?..)
(c) A slight glitch on a tape may mean that you lose a few seconds of video and audio: if a camcorder's disc crashes - or memory gets corrupted - you may lose everything you've shot on it
(d) The better, lower compression of HDV gives smoother, "truer" video than the higher-compressed AVCHD

..but against that, people may argue that:

(e) AVCHD memory-chip camcorders have fewer moving parts, so there's less to go wrong
(f) New MacBooks don't have a FireWire socket, so they do connect to USB-connection AVCHD camcorders but do not connect to FireWire-connected HDV camcorders
(g) AVCHD camcorders tend to be lighter and more compact than tape-based HDV camcorders so they easily slip into a pocket (..though that lightness can give slightly more wobbly movies..)
(h) Chips and chip-capacities will become cheaper and greater, so that 32GB and 64GB capacity chips will enable huge amounts of video to be recorded on a single lightweight SD card, compared with the 1-hour limit of each HDV tape (..but see (c), above..)

"..I am leaning hard toward the HDR-HC9, but I am now a little scared about jumping into the HD world at all.."

..As long as you have a fast Mac, which you do have, and plenty of RAM (..I'd upgrade your 2GB to 4GB if possible..) and a good size external FireWire hard disc, for storing everything, you'll be OK.

HOWEVER, Canon camcorders do NOT like to have other FireWire equipment in the circuit while they're being used. So a Sony HDR-HC9 will happily work with an external FireWire hard disc connected to your Mac, but the equivalent Canon HV30 won't ..that'll only import to your Mac's internal hard disc.

Hi-def is already the standard, and with TVs getting bigger and wider all the time, standard-def DV looks a bit fuzzy now - and will look even more fuzzy in 5 years' time, when everything else will be far sharper! ..Just as no films are shown now in 'Academy' ratio (4:3 shape)..



..but in various versions of widescreen..



..so standard-def home movies will look really odd in a couple of years' time.

So; AVCHD: small, handy, 'snapshot'-style hi-def. Simple slip-in (easily lost) high-capacity tiny memory cards. Expands to much larger file sizes when imported for editing (..which the camera makers don't mention!)

HDV: a bit larger, heavier, slightly better quality, 1-hour-only small tapes, imports in 'real-time' with a fast Mac, expands to larger file sizes too.

Both use deceptively small "media" (tiny memory cards, or reasonably small tapes) which give no suggestion of the large hard-disc storage needed when you come to expand (..to enable editing..) the compressed footage.

..As they used to say on "Blind Date" .."the choice is yours!"

Excellent post, Dave, THANKS. I now know where I'm wasting time with my projects.

My way around the storage problem is simpler: I do my iMovie06 project, and fill up my hard drive in the process, then I save the resulting iDVD project as a disk image (and thus have a permanent record of the final product), and delete the iMovie project afterwards. If I really want to re-edit, I can alwys go back to the original tape (another reason to not want to move to AVCHD), and I have copied the disk image to other harddrives so that they don't get lost.

BeateW

Well, you're very disciplined in the way you do it, and that sounds great!

"..Maybe there is an easier way to accomplish what I am doing.." ..the only difference between what you do and what I do is that - instead of importing into iM4 and then throwing away what's not wanted - I just import (..into iMHD6 or iM08..) only what I do want. I look, on the camera's monitor, at what I've shot, and make a note of the times of the shots I want - e.g; 07:32:00 to 08:50:00 - and just import those shots only ..leaving a few extra seconds on the ends to be "eaten away" when I add transitions, etc.

(..In 'pro' circles this is called "Log and Capture" ..making notes of what you want, then 'capturing' just those shots..)

The rest of your workflow makes perfect sense!

"..I don't think that iM4 can handle HD raw footage.." ..Correct; it can't. But you could - as I just described - look through your footage on the camera, then just import into iMHD6 or iM08 only the material you want. Simple.

"..I still have years and years of older family videotapes that I am trying to catch up on.." ..Yup. Me too! (..I mean "I, also"!..)

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the HC9, and I hope you get lots of fulfilment and satisfaction from it!

All the best!

Sorry to read about your problem.

Yup ..if it looks too good to be true, it usually is. Same when buying on eBay ..look carefully, and try and trace back those feedback reports which say "excellent seller", etc. That being said, I've had some great bargains on eBay (..an excellent Mac mini, a couple of excellent laptops, a great TiVo and a couple of cameras..) all of which did turn out to be as good as they appeared to be, and for good prices.

But the ones which look too good to be true ..they're not true at all.

Question for you, Dave: Has Sony ironed out the issues they had with earlier HCX models and the internal chip? I know there had been some problems with models not connecting to Macs OR PeeCs, and before I leap in with another $1,000 purchase, I want to make sure I won't be eating into my bank account anymore beyond the purchase.

Sony HCX..? I don't know of any such model ..unless you mean HC series, like HC1, HC9 etc (..where X stands for some number or other).

I've never had any trouble connecting any HC model to a Mac, though some people do. I didn't know that Sony had issues with them.

Some people had issues connecting them, but some people have issues connecting any camcorder, whatever the make or model. I didn't know that HC models, specifically, had any particular problems connecting ..or that people have any more problems with HCs than with, say, FX series camcorders or Z1s or (hard drive) HDR-SRs or (memory stick) HDR-CXs.

Do a search here in Discussions for the HDR HC3 model, to be precise. I posted, along with a few other people. I ended up eating nearly $500 on the camera. My issue was specifically on the Sony. I have always been able to hook up my Canons.

And yes "X" = any given number. I saw threads discussing the same problem with the HC1 cameras as well.

OK, so it's not a widespread problem anymore. I was just wondering and didn't feel like recreating yet another disaster.

That's surprising..

"..I saw threads discussing the same problem with the HC1 cameras as well.." ..I've had my HC1 since they first went on sale, and it's never given a moment of trouble when importing into any version of iMovie!

There are some general rules, though, that I'd recommend if a camera isn't recognised: some of them are under "Sony camcorder special fixes", halfway down this page of Dan's 'iMovie FAQ', and another is to put a clip of the relevant kind of video at the start of any new project, Play that, and then start importing ..as that helps iMovie to know what kind of video it's being expected to handle.

Other tips are to always select the correct choices in a camcorder's own menus before importing into iMovie, and Sue's tip is to go to GarageBand - if you can't import - and to play a few notes in that, and then come back to iMovie: that selects the correct audio settings for iMovie compatibility.

..Then simply "try again".

I've never had any trouble with an HC1, an FX1, umpteen various standard-def DV camcorders - including Digital-8, except once, and then I used that "play-before-importing" trick - whether Sony, Canon, Panasonic or JVC. Never tried a Samsung, though..