can i run sonar and logic on mac?

That is correct. You will need: 1) a copy of Windows XP, but I think some of the various incarnations of Vista are now supported if for some reason you want to use that, 2) some sort of means of booting the Windows system, there are several, some better than others. Boot Camp is free, but does not allow simultaneously booting of the Mac OS and Windows, others do, 3) Sonar and Logic.

To me, this seems insane. If I were you, or anyone else for that matter, I'd get the Mac and Logic, see how that's treating you, and then see if you absolutely need Sonar. Logic has good mixin', and features too. Of course, if your band mates use Sonar, and you need to open those files, then there you have it.

I had XP pro on my macbook for a couple of weeks. I decided to dump it, because it was very unstable. Kept shutting down unexpectedly right in the middle of working. I think it's because of the FAT32 format required to run it on a mac. That was my experience. My 2 cents.

THE John Carroll wrote:
I had XP pro on my macbook for a couple of weeks. I decided to dump it, because it was very unstable. Kept shutting down unexpectedly right in the middle of working. I think it's because of the FAT32 format required to run it on a mac. That was my experience. My 2 cents.

I don't think it's FAT32, were you using Bootcamp? Some of Apple's drivers for WinXP are still weak, but improving.

The only way to successfully run PC Sonar or Cubase...etc, is to use a dual boot system. Programs that run Windows in the Mac environment are not going to work for timing intensive (Sequencers) applications.

pancenter-

I was once in the same boat as you. I loaded XP and Sonar on my Mac Pro but it was more hassle than worth. Instead, I kept Sonar on my original PC and used Logic on my Mac. I loved SONAR but hated the PC world. I haven't used it in over a year but it's still there in case I need it.

Some of my friends still use SONAR and we swap files via OMF. It's not perfect but it works for us.

stevetothink wrote:
I was once in the same boat as you. I loaded XP and Sonar on my Mac Pro but it was more hassle than worth. Instead, I kept Sonar on my original PC and used Logic on my Mac. I loved SONAR but hated the PC world. I haven't used it in over a year but it's still there in case I need it.

I set up both PCs & Macs for studio use and have found that once a PC WinXP-Pro system is set up correctly for studio use (about 10 minutes), reliability is on par with the Mac. You have to know which equipment to purchase and the dozen or so settings for the OS.

pancenter-

Pancenter wrote:

stevetothink wrote:
I was once in the same boat as you. I loaded XP and Sonar on my Mac Pro but it was more hassle than worth. Instead, I kept Sonar on my original PC and used Logic on my Mac. I loved SONAR but hated the PC world. I haven't used it in over a year but it's still there in case I need it.

I set up both PCs & Macs for studio use and have found that once a PC WinXP-Pro system is set up correctly for studio use (about 10 minutes), reliability is on par with the Mac. You have to know which equipment to purchase and the dozen or so settings for the OS.

pancenter-

I have to disagree. I used SONAR on windows 98, 2000 and XP Pro over the years. When it worked well, it was great and inexpensive. When it didn't run smoothly, it was very painful. Viruses bring everything to a grinding halt. In order to optimize my PC for studio studio work, I turned off virus software. This made me prone to major issues. Driver compatibility was often painful on a PC. I can't tell you how many time I had to install, un-install, update, re-install a driver in order to get something to work. On top of it all, I find the build quality of my Mac Pro superior to that of my Dell super PC. I went through many faulty DVD or CD drives in my PC. I went through many fault video cards over the years. I'm not saying that things don't go wrong with a MAC but I haven't had it happen yet. That in itself, was worth the switch for me.

You can definitely make killer tracks on a PC with Sonar or Pro Tools. I did it for years. I simply find my MAC to be consistently more stable in general.

stevetothink wrote:

I have to disagree. I used SONAR on windows 98, 2000 and XP Pro over the years. When it worked well, it was great and inexpensive. When it didn't run smoothly, it was very painful. Viruses bring everything to a grinding halt.

Well I strongly disagree also!!! 🙂

I've been running PCs and macs for years and never had a problem. The studio PC's I build don't run a virus checker just a firewall as they are only online when updating audio software or exchanging projects.

In order to optimize my PC for studio studio work, I turned off virus software. This made me prone to major issues. Driver compatibility was often painful on a PC. I can't tell you how many time I had to install, un-install, update, re-install a driver in order to get something to work.

See above, if you purchase quality hardware there are no driver problems, if you use cheap or new/untested stuff, yes, there will be problems.

On top of it all, I find the build quality of my Mac Pro superior to that of my Dell super PC.

Yes, but your Mac Pro is basically a well built PC, just like the ones I build for studios. The mainboard is the same Intel mainboard (with slight variation) you can purchase for a PC. Early Macbook Pros have the same MB as my Acer/Intel, right down to the location of all the ports, memory slots and available options.

You mentioned Dell. -any- type of Dell is a cheap commercial machine, if Dell is involved all I can say is you've never used a real PC made with quality parts. Dell uses a lot of proprietary hardware and does not allow custom configuration. I've tried to service a few, I know how they're made.

I went through many faulty DVD or CD drives in my PC. I went through many fault video cards over the years.

Cheap stuff, what can I say, it has nothing to do with quality hardware.
What do you think your Mac Pro uses? The DVD/CD drives and video cards are commercially available. The ATI 2600XTHD video card will work in both a PC and a Mac. It's the same hardware, same with DVD/CD drives, my original G4 had a NEC CD drive, my G5 came with a Pioneer combo drive, at the time, both drives could've been purchased commercially. If you use a good power supply and quality motherboard the kind of problems you describe are nill.

I have over 12 PCs and almost that many Macs running in professional studios in three states, I wouldn't have be able to maintain them and make a profit if I had to do the kind of maintenance you're talking about.

I think the point is, most PC's are not made for audio, even the higher end ones are more for gaming and multimedia content more than anything else. I'm not saying they aren't good for what they do, the higher end PC's- but I wouldn't think of Alienware for my studio setup first is all.

There is no doubt that one can build a great audio PC, or a PC for any purpose. Not everyone is comfortable building a PC, though. And when you step out, your average Dell and whatnot is a completely unsuitable PC for any audio- and I'm probably going to lump in all the computers one will find to buy at your average Best Buy, or the late, unlamented Circuit City.

And for PC's that are sold assembled for audio, there is nothing I can think of quicker than a Creation Station, which is a well made PC (I am told, I don't know) but when I compare them to Macs then I really think the Mac is a better choice for the buck.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, or start some nauseating Mac vs. PC thing here. I know a well made PC is just the sum of its parts with a Windows operating system on it, and I further know the Windows operating system is fine. But I would have a hard time buying a PC for audio, and I've looked around a bit, and that would leave me with building one, which again not everyone wants to do.

And even then, there is something to be said about buying a computer that is already designed to work with itself.

Larry Mal wrote:
I think the point is, most PC's are not made for audio, even the higher end ones are more for gaming and multimedia content more than anything else. I'm not saying they aren't good for what they do, the higher end PC's- but I wouldn't think of Alienware for my studio setup first is all.

There is no doubt that one can build a great audio PC, or a PC for any purpose. Not everyone is comfortable building a PC, though. And when you step out, your average Dell and whatnot is a completely unsuitable PC for any audio- and I'm probably going to lump in all the computers one will find to buy at your average Best Buy, or the late, unlamented Circuit City.

I'm in complete agreement with you Larry. I have many (too many) years experience with both platforms and try to keep an objective attitude. I do the same thing on some of the PC audio lists when I see misconceptions relating to the Mac and OSX. This is the Logic list so I'm not really talking about a general purpose PC or Mac.

And even then, there is something to be said about buying a computer that is already designed to work with itself.

And even then. things obviously don't always work, look at this and other Mac lists. Pity the purchaser of a new uni-body Macbook, don't go over to that forum.

pancenter-

I'm not in love with the unibody Macbooks, and probably not the unibody Macbook Pros, that's for sure. Style over substance. I don't think I'd be able to add more RAM to those- I've looked at photos and don't see how one could switch out a hard drive either. And there you have it, you've got to pay Apple's exorbitant RAM price up front. No thanks.

I think the fact is, most computers aren't designed for pro audio, and computer makers really don't want to tell you that, whether it be Dell or Apple, frankly. You've got to know what you need, and how to buy it, for yourself. No one can help you with that in the end except yourself.

I will ask, though, how does one get into a PC with two quad core processors? Without building one I mean- I can't find anything except Apple that will sell you one.

Larry Mal wrote:
I'm not in love with the unibody Macbooks, and probably not the unibody Macbook Pros, that's for sure. Style over substance.

From reading the forum there's some build quality issues going on.

I will ask, though, how does one get into a PC with two quad core processors? Without building one I mean- I can't find anything except Apple that will sell you one.

Our old friend Dell... 🙂

http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=DellDualQuad&cat=all

There's a lot of mainboards available, upgrading processors is also possible.

Way off topic, back to your regularly scheduled format.

pancenter-

Pancenter wrote:

stevetothink wrote:

Well I strongly disagree also!!! 🙂

I've been running PCs and macs for years and never had a problem. The studio PC's I build don't run a virus checker just a firewall as they are only online when updating audio software or exchanging projects.

I see your point(s). Although I've swapped out a lot of the stock Dell components, I have never worked with a 100% custom built studio PC. It's nice to know that they are able to run as needed, especially since SONAR is a good product.

One nice thing about MACs is that you don't have to know all of the technical stuff in your post above in order to ensure that you get a quality machine for your studio.

There you go Pancenter! I had to imagine that Dell would build a computer of that sort, but couldn't find where to do so on their website. Not even on the Alienware section of the site.

When I configured out the computer with two 3.0 GHz processors and 2 GB's of 800 MHz RAM, comparable to a Macpro, everything else stock (256 MB video card) it was $4008. For a dual 2.83 GHz processor model with 2 GB's of 667 MHz RAM, same video card, it was $3768.

Again, I feel a little better having a similarly powered Mac for the $2600 I spent, although I'll be quick to acknowledge that the Dell comes with a pretty nice monitor, and a three year as opposed to a one year warranty. And the Dell will allow up to 64 GB's of RAM, instead of 32, which was a big selling point for me. There are some other things I think are nice there, a bigger selection of video cards, and better prices on the very fast RPM (15000) drives.

I'd still go with the Mac: a little stronger on price, and I prefer the Mac format and software. But I couldn't say that the Dell you sent me would be a great Avid workstation, or Pro Tools rig, as good as any Mac.

I'm not too worried about the original posters question and going off topic, either, it's been well covered. I'm having fun with this conversation.

I think the main problem is that there are a lot of sloppy, underpowered computers sold in the PC world that folks try to use for professional applications that just aren't going to cut it. And then Dell get the blame, or XP, but the fact is not all computers will mix an album for you, certainly not the Hewlett Packard your parents got you to write papers on in high school.

The same is true for Macs, so many times I have to caution folks about using an iMac for their audio work, while it's certainly fast enough, a lot of the peripherals aren't there.

Good conversation! Thanks.

I meant to say above that I "couldn't say" the Dell high end workstation wouldn't be as good as any Mac, not the exact opposite of what I meant, that I "could say" that. I wonder if a $4500 Dell would proofread my posts better than these **** Macs are doing. It's the computer, you see.