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Level 1

65 points

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates

As most of us who have bought the iPod Photo already know, the sound quality IS FLAWED. The distorsion (or background crackling) of high frequency/high output sound (such as piano, high output electric guitar & some deep bass output - however the vocals seem to be fine) is there and something needs to be done about it. Some good examples of where this kind of problem occurs, from what I have found are: Radiohead (most of the OK Computer album), The Hives (the iPod Photo cannot seem to cope with their loud distorted guitar style & very high output), and Incubus (a lot of Morning View). Some people who are still using the tinny, lacklustre stock earbuds, or just don't listen to their music carefully enough, or listen niavely, may still not recognise this.

I refuse to let this issue drop, as I have spent good money on what should be, a technically flawless sound player. I do like this player though (mine is 60GB). The features are good, the photo element is excellent, the 60GB storage is unrivalled, but the main function of the player, to play music, is not good for this one issue. It is so disappointing considering Apple have obviously overlooked this issue (or simply let it slip by thinking nobody would notice), for what is otherwise an excellent piece of equipment.

I record all my music on iTunes, using the MP3 encoder. Some people think the MP3 encoder in iTunes is poor, but it is as good as most. It is all ripped at 224kbps VBR. I use Shure E2c earphones, which are also excellent, and by far the best value for money if you're looking for a warm tone & deep bass in your sound. The step up in price to the Shure E3c might be worth it if you prefer a more detailed, but possibly colder sound.

All that considered, there is absolutely no reason why the sound should be poor on my iPod Photo (when it is fine on the iPod Mini, and using Audio software on my PC), apart from there being a hardware/software glitch. There simply must be. Either that, or something in the sound has been compromised to accomodate the photo elements or colour screen.

I have sent an e-mail to Apple regarding all this, and will hopefully hear from them soon about what is going to be done to resolve this. I will keep this post updated as and when I hear news from them. I also have a case number in motion with their customer services department, and they cannot ignore this anymore.

Something must be done! Redeem yourselves, Apple!

Posted on Apr 10, 2005 10:29 PM

348 replies

ceejoh

Level 1

15 points

Oct 11, 2005 6:25 PM in response to Johnny Wood

Answer me this. Why do i hear distortion to bass on my mini (especially with EQ at "rock" but even with EQ off, at ANY volume level), yet if i use the same (stock iPod) headphones and the same EQ settings with the same songs on my PowerBook G4 with iTunes (5.0.1), i get beautiful deep undistorted bass ?? Surely that means the issue lies with the iPod itself, and not the headphones or software (as has been suggested in many forum discussions on this issue (using iPods - mini, Photo AND nano) and by Apple support ??

Oct 11, 2005 7:13 PM in response to Johnny Wood

The only time i am ever hearing such distoration is when i have the volume set to max, other than that on my 20 gig ipod colour every thing is fine and well either i have mine imported as a MPEG-4(320) or another file type cant remember the file type the size is 1411 tho...and well it also depends if you download or rip from cd, i find downloading all i can ever hear is the streaming of the songs, hense why my entire library is from my cd collection...

ChasUGC

Level 1

140 points

Oct 11, 2005 9:35 PM in response to James Morrallee

I have a 60 GB Ipod Photo and I don't hear any additional distortion than the background noise on the CD recording itself. I listen to classical music and jazz recordings, and Piano artists doing solos such as Elton John and Billy Joel. Of course the old CD Jazz recordings have there own background noise. But that is not a fault of Ipod. I use the generic headphones too. Of course any noise on the recording is going to seem magnified when the recording is placed directly in your ear.

You can try using a good software for manual noise reduction with graphical representation of the file such as Cool Edit Pro or Sound Forge. Or maybe it might be a good idea of Apple to include the option of Dolby Noise Reduction on the Ipod.

I also listen to every file that I transfer to check that it is not abnormally loud. Saturation would cause distortion. You can check the peak levels in most good software such as Sound Forge and Cool Edit Pro. If the sound ever goes into the red area then the level is too high.

One good way to check the noise level is too check a low area in the wave graphical display. But, the more you reduce it the more it might effect the sound of the recording itself.

Also, as a sound engineer, one must realize that when you "live mic" a room you will get background noise. The larger the room the louder the mikes have to be, and hence the problem in miking opera rooms, with flutes in the back.

Oct 12, 2005 2:07 AM in response to Johnny Wood

I have just received a 20GB Ipod colour for my birthday, downloaded most of my cds onto it and was appalled by the sound quality, I then found this and another discussion forum with loads of people saying the same thing. Why have we heard nothing from Apple??? I'm going into my local Apple shop this afternoon to challenge them.

Oct 12, 2005 2:13 AM in response to ChasUGC

I have a fantastic pair of ears, and listen to a lot of piano music. Classical music, not rock.

I've got etymotic ER4-Ps, probably the best in ear headphones money can buy. Listening to DDD piano recording in WAV format, there is distortion, so bad that you can't listen. Also with orchestral music, instruments are distorted especially horns and woods. The problem as we've discussed endlessly seems to be headphone impedence.

The older ipods worked fine with 16ohm impedence headphones but not the new one.

Oct 12, 2005 2:14 AM in response to John Sorsby

Fat chance you'll get any response. The European support line were not interested. Apple stock has plunged 10% today due to problems with the Nano.

Oct 12, 2005 2:51 AM in response to Neil Tingley

Etymotic research do a cable that converts the 4P's to 4S's. This cable effectively ups the impedance. It is called the ER4p-24 and it works. Without I get distortion with I get NO distortion! It even works if I try it on the Sony 77 ear buds as well.
Phil

Oct 12, 2005 2:53 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Also get distortion when I play it through my daughters I-station and through the car stereo, is this a completely separate output to the headphones output?

Ant1

Level 2

415 points

Oct 12, 2005 3:27 AM in response to Johnny Wood

The thing is, after all these talks about sound quality problems with the iPod colour, one canoot still be 100% sure that there is indeed a problem...
Some people say they hear it, some do not, some say it has been fixed by a software update, even Apple say it is a problem fixable with a new software, yet they are talking about high-frequencies distortion, not overall distortion , as some have mentioned (see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60967).
I'm in a situation where, personally, I don't hear a distortion on my colour iPod. I used to be a professional music producer, so I think I have an ear for these kind of problems. However, it might be that the music I'm listening to - Pop, Dance - hides this. It could be that my temporary replacement earphones - Sennheiser earbuds from my old Iriver mp3 player - are not precise enough, though they're much better than those horrible ones that are supplied with the iPod.
Thing is, I want to get some high-quality earphones...I'm talking Etymotic, Shure, Westone or Ultimate Ears. BUT, I'm not going to spend good money on earphones if they won't work because of a possibly-flawed iPod. It looks that the problem might be - if indeed there is one - one of impedance: anything under 32 Ohms, and you're in trouble. Maybe.
So, here's my solution for those of you in a similar situation:get the Etymotics ER6 or ER4s as their impedance is above 32 Ohms, which will result in a good sound. Me, I'm getting the Etymotics ER6i despite the fact that they are only 16 Ohms. Reason? I want them white (my prerogative...) and louder than the ER6 ot ER4, and with more bass. IF there is a problem, meaning that indeed there's a need for a higher impedance, then I'll bear the cost and get the replacement cable from Etymotics to bring the impedance higher. Not an ideal solution, but at least I'll have a working solution. Note that, from what I gather, the Etymotics ER6 and ER4s (and ER6i with that cable) seem to be the only in-ear canalphones available whose impedance is, or can be, higher than 32 Ohms.
Had I known about this before buying my new iPod....Doubts are not the kind of opinions I expected to hear about Apple sound products, from Apple users too.

Oct 12, 2005 4:07 AM in response to Ant1

see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60967

Sounds like a problem not related to this thread.

I think we already agreed that the problem discussed in this thread is impedance-related. A colleague recently bought an iPod Color and the Apple in-ear headphones from Amazon a few days later. He sent the in-ears back after only one day, because he couldn't stand the distortions, e.g. around piano or flute notes. He's going to stick to the standard Apple headphones for the time being. Personally, I prefer the in-ears because of their much better sound for rock/metal music and I hardly ever notice the distortion listening to this kind of music. But the fact that Apple keeps throwing new iPod models at us on an almost weekly basis (with new gadgets like video-out) without checking the audio quality is really ticking me off... and don't get me started on the firmware bugs. I especially like the no-I-wont-let-you-switch-me-off-now and the I-dont-show-cover-arts-after-the-last-song-with-repeat-on bugs... grrr!

Oct 12, 2005 4:12 AM in response to Ant1

I tried the convertor cable for the ER4-P that turns them into ER4-S. It flattens out the sound and the volume levels are about halved. But the flaws to piano sound certainly are much reduced. However Don't get ER4-S for the ipod ! Its not really a solution unless you then buy a portable headphone amp.

The ER4-Ps sound fine with chamber and baroque music (period instruments). Female voices are smudged in the higher registers, violins sound ok, horns don't. I've not tried every kind of music yet.

Its DDD piano music that is the culprit. Try listening to Glenn Gould's Haydn Sonatas for example.

The effect is about the same as sometimes you have a glass, cup or something sitting on your piano and it resonates on some notes.

The problem is not there when listening from another source.

I'm happy to upload some test tracks for people ...

Neil

Ant1

Level 2

415 points

Oct 12, 2005 4:34 AM in response to Neil Tingley

I stand corrected about the ER4s...Neil should know. I was only referring to the impedance problem though. Seems like eevn then, it does not solve all problems, ie flatter sound and half volume. Curiously, I contacted two distributors of high-quality in-ear phones (http://store.earphonesolutions.com/shureearphones.html and http://www.headphones.com.au) and they both haven't heard of any problems. They say that they sell many Etymotics, etc...to iPod owners, and no complaints. Go figure.. Yeah, I know, they're into the business of selling, but surely they might be concerned if customers kept complaining.

Oct 12, 2005 5:45 AM in response to Ant1

I'm having a dialogue with Etymotics at the moment. They won't be happy about the problem since they are leveraging the Ipod brand to sell headphones (that will sound bad with certain types of music).

Here's what I got back from their customer service people

"Dear Neil,

Please accept our apologies for the delayed response, as your inquiry was very unique and we forwarded your email to one of our Engineers for further review and assistance. In order to offer our assessment of the experience you describe, we need to know what type of iPod device you are using. For example, iPod Photo, mini, etc. As soon as I receive your information, we forward our additional comments and thoughts. Thank you in advance for your patience as we continue to evaluate your inquiry.

Regards,

Charlene Clements
Sales Administrator
Etymotic Research, Inc.
61 Martin Lane
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007

Oct 12, 2005 5:59 AM in response to Neil Tingley

Hi Neil,

as this thread is getting longer by the minute, did you see Philip Tyler, "iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates" #236, 02:39am Aug 24, 2005 CDT ?
Sounds like they are already aware of the problem... or at least one engineer at Etymotic Research should be 🙂

Oct 12, 2005 8:09 AM in response to Tobias Bading

Yes I read that. But the ER4-P to ER4-S converter cable reduces the distortion but the Ipod can't drive the heaphones adequately - a lot of depth and bloom to the sound is lost.

So the 'solution' is at best a hack. Also for European ipods the output volume with the the converter cables will be quite low.

No all music is distorted by any means. I'm happily listening to a Schubert Quartet. But piano music is impossible.

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates