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Level 1

65 points

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates

As most of us who have bought the iPod Photo already know, the sound quality IS FLAWED. The distorsion (or background crackling) of high frequency/high output sound (such as piano, high output electric guitar & some deep bass output - however the vocals seem to be fine) is there and something needs to be done about it. Some good examples of where this kind of problem occurs, from what I have found are: Radiohead (most of the OK Computer album), The Hives (the iPod Photo cannot seem to cope with their loud distorted guitar style & very high output), and Incubus (a lot of Morning View). Some people who are still using the tinny, lacklustre stock earbuds, or just don't listen to their music carefully enough, or listen niavely, may still not recognise this.

I refuse to let this issue drop, as I have spent good money on what should be, a technically flawless sound player. I do like this player though (mine is 60GB). The features are good, the photo element is excellent, the 60GB storage is unrivalled, but the main function of the player, to play music, is not good for this one issue. It is so disappointing considering Apple have obviously overlooked this issue (or simply let it slip by thinking nobody would notice), for what is otherwise an excellent piece of equipment.

I record all my music on iTunes, using the MP3 encoder. Some people think the MP3 encoder in iTunes is poor, but it is as good as most. It is all ripped at 224kbps VBR. I use Shure E2c earphones, which are also excellent, and by far the best value for money if you're looking for a warm tone & deep bass in your sound. The step up in price to the Shure E3c might be worth it if you prefer a more detailed, but possibly colder sound.

All that considered, there is absolutely no reason why the sound should be poor on my iPod Photo (when it is fine on the iPod Mini, and using Audio software on my PC), apart from there being a hardware/software glitch. There simply must be. Either that, or something in the sound has been compromised to accomodate the photo elements or colour screen.

I have sent an e-mail to Apple regarding all this, and will hopefully hear from them soon about what is going to be done to resolve this. I will keep this post updated as and when I hear news from them. I also have a case number in motion with their customer services department, and they cannot ignore this anymore.

Something must be done! Redeem yourselves, Apple!

Posted on Apr 10, 2005 10:29 PM

348 replies

Jun 12

Level 1

45 points

Apr 14, 2005 10:12 PM in response to Johnny Wood

Hello,

Did you have to to reload all the music after using mp3gain or just syncing with iTunes is sufficient to update the music files in the iPod?

Thanks!

Johnny Wood Author

Level 1

65 points

Apr 14, 2005 11:22 PM in response to Jun 12

Sorry for not replying to your earlier question. You will have to delete the songs from the iPod then put the re-tagged ones back on again. The library in iTunes will not need updating though, as the tags are already changed in those.

Loge

Level 1

45 points

Apr 15, 2005 1:17 AM in response to Johnny Wood

It would be great to hear from anyone who has had this problem with the iPod photo, and has been able to get a replacement for it that did not have the problem. So far I have only read about cases where the replacement was no better.

I will be returning mine under warranty next week, so I will see how that goes.

Johnny Wood Author

Level 1

65 points

Apr 15, 2005 1:29 AM in response to Loge

Yes that is why I am reluctant to get a replacement just yet, as others have already said their's were no better.

Would be nice to know how that goes Loge. Cheers.

One other thought... How many of these problems are within the iPod Photos that were bought from the first batch that they launched, which have the dock, case, AV cable etc.? Mine is the 60GB with all the accessories. I wonder if there is another reason Apple decided to launch the new models without the accessories, ie. because the first lot had the defect. So how many of the people with the iPod problem got their's in the first launch packages with the accessores included? Cheers everyone.

Apr 15, 2005 4:09 AM in response to Johnny Wood

I believe that we are correct when we state that ALL iPod photos have this problem, but some users either do not listen critically enough - or the music that they listen to does not reveal the flaws in the sound quality. If you are used to listening your pop music on a boom box one-piece stereo system, then you probably won't hear the sound quality problems. If however, you habitually listen to music with a large dynamic range, on a high-quality system, then you should have no problem hearing these problems.

The reason for the assumption that ALL iPod photos have this problem, as I have posted on the other discussion around this topic, is that I have personally tested 3 different iPod photos against a 2nd Generation iPod (non-photo), an iPod mini (2nd gen) and an iPod shuffle. ONLY the iPod photos have the distortion problem. In addition, these were iPod photos from various sources around the globe (a 40GB "white box-generation 1" that was bought in France, a 30GB "black box-generation 2" bought in the UK, and a 60GB "black-box-generation 2" that was bought in the US). They ALL have the same problem.

After getting 3 bad iPods from 3 different sources that have the problem, statistically it would confirm our suspicions that ALL iPod photos have this problem. Chances are slim to none that I lucked out and got 3 bad photos in a row. It would also confirm other reports that units that are being replaced by Apple under warranty have the same problem that is present in all photos.

Johnny - Please keep us posted on your case # with Apple and its potential resolution.

P.S. A great track (from the album suggested by Johnny) to display the sound problem is "Karma Police" from Radiohead on the OK Computer album.

Apr 15, 2005 7:07 AM in response to Johnny Wood

All iPod photos DO NOT have this problem. Maybe some do, it'd wouldn't suprise me if some were faulty.

My gut feeling is that a lot of this has to do with badly encoded MP3 files more than anything else. Therefore if you use the same bad MP3 on your replacement iPod it still sounds bad.

Personally I have no such problem, but am a very critical listener. I will say that for a number of piano tracks I do hear the same small amount of distortion, but then I hear it from my two computers also - the sign of a bad MP3, not the sign of a bad iPod.

Apr 15, 2005 7:17 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Allstair - you sure love confusing the readers of these threads. We are not talking about the files themselves. The files sound FINE on any other iPod - they sound TERRIBLE when listened to on the iPod photo. I can put the same file on my old 2nd Generation (or shuttle or mini or...) and it SOUNDS GREAT.

Just to restate, we are not talking about 128K files downloaded from the iTunes music store. We are talking about 256K, 320K and Apple Lossless files encoded from the orignal source material. These files sound great on all iPods but the iPod photo.

So, YES the problem exists with ALL iPod photos whether you (personally) can hear it or not....

Paul M.

Level 4

1,085 points

Apr 15, 2005 8:35 AM in response to Sallie Hammond

[quote]So, YES the problem exists with ALL iPod photos whether you (personally) can hear it or not....[/quote]

So you've listened to every iPod photo? I'll tell you this. I have a 60GB. I've listened to tracks at multiple bit rates (including apple lossless). I've listed to the iPod through multiple sets of headphones and earbuds, 2 different sets of speakers, my surround system, and 2 different cars. I've done double blind tests between bitrates with several different people listening. I've compared it with 2G, 3G, and the iPod mini. For my iPod Photo (the only one I can intelligently speak about), there is no problem with the sound quality. There is no discernible difference between the quality of it and any of the other iPods I have access to.

I don't have a problem believing that there are some people whose iPods have sound quality issues - but don't try to tell me that mine does...you haven't listened to it.

Cheers

Apr 15, 2005 8:58 AM in response to Johnny Wood

You are right, Paul - I haven't listened to your iPod. If to your ears it sounds okay, then you are one of the lucky ones that doesn't notice the problem.

As I imagine you are aware, some of us have better ears than others. So some of us notice the problem, where others don't....

Apr 15, 2005 9:01 AM in response to Johnny Wood

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

I have many many people on my side, and you have a few people on your side.

My personal advice to anyone thinking about buying an iPod photo is to listen to one in a shop first. Listen to all kinds of music. Listen to the other iPods. If you have your own headphones then take them along too (I did).

Me and many other audiophiles think that the iPod photo produces the same sound quality as the other iPods, shuffle included. You can find various "scientific" tests of the different models, but none of these have taken into account more than one of each iPod, leading to statistically flawed studies. Sadly there are not enough of these studies to come to any real conclusion other than iPods generally produce a better output than most MP3 encodings are able to produce.

Reading and believing problems encountered by
i some
people on messageboards is no way to research whether a product is right for you or not. Reviews on audio websites give a clearer picture of any problems that "might" exist, but as I said all the scientific studies I have seen are at best flawed.

As far as I have seen all reviews point to the sound quality of the iPod photo being as good, if not better than previous revisions. Many reviews also point to the fact that it uses the same audio circuitry as the 4th generation models.

To all those with problems, I sympathise with you, but to try and make out that you are definitely correct and everyone who has a perfect iPod is simply
i not listening well enough
is misleading in the extreme. I personally cannot believe the arrogance of Sallie in the previous post blindly disregarding Paul's tests done with multiple people, multiple iPods and multiple outputs. Yes Sallie they all have hearing defects, as do I - yeah right!

Apr 15, 2005 9:20 AM in response to Sallie Hammond

A direct reply to this comment.

NO, it is you that is mistaken.

I have listened to 128k AAC, MP3 up to 320k, WAV and Apple Lossless and there is no problem with any of them other than perhaps on the odd occasion a poorly ripped or encoded file.

Apr 15, 2005 9:29 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Just a reminder, this is a discussion, not an argument. I stated that some people have better ears than others, which is a scientific fact. Some people hear the problem and others don't - also a fact.

Yes, I have made a generalization that all iPod photos have this problem because I have tested three different ones, purchased in three different countries over a period of three months. Since all of these exhibit the same symptoms, I have assumed that all iPod photos have the problem. Statistically, this is a correct assumption. It is certainly possible that I could somehow have gotten three bad ones in a row, and that there are many that are fine. However, the "me too" echos on these threads far outweigh the "no, I don't have the problem" posts, so more than likely this is a general problem with at least a significant # of iPod photos affected.

It wasn't being arrogant to suggest that certain people listen to their music more critically than others. This explains why some people spend $500 (or Euros, or whatever) on an audio system, while others (like myself) can justify spending >$50,000 for an audio system. To those that spent the $500, their system sounds just fine. I have had many people come to my home and remark that they don't really hear a difference between my system and theirs. I have also had many people listen and say "Wow, that is unbelieveable. It sounds like the singer and group is standing in the room with us." I justify the purchase price of my system in that I can hear a big difference between it and many lesser priced systems.

That doesn't mean that I am arrogant for noticing the difference and it doesn't mean that other people have "hearing defects" as you suggest. It simply means some people are more critical of their surroundings and others aren't.

Let's please try to stay on topic discussing the problems we hear and not criticize others ability (or inability) to hear the problem. If you don't hear the problem, then there is no problem.

Apr 15, 2005 9:39 AM in response to Johnny Wood

<sarcasm>
Oh of course, now I see. You spent $50,000 on a stereo system, therefore you MUST be correct, sorry for all the confusion.
</sarcasm>

I bow down to your arrogance, you have out done yourself yet again.

Note: you are the one trying to end discussion by saying "it is definitely this way", whereas others, like me, are very understanding that there may be some problems.

quote:
i However, the "me too" echos on these threads far outweigh the "no, I don't have the problem" posts

If you had not noticed, this is a "Support" messageboard, not a "I love my iPod, it's perfect" messageboard. Therefore is attracts people who have problems, hence the trend that we see.

If you look on the boards for all the other Apple products you'll see the same trend - the only difference being that you are more zealous and self-important ("I have the best hearing") than most complainers.

Apr 15, 2005 9:56 AM in response to Alistair Hart

I still haven't tried out that software yet, but i have been listening to my ipod photo very closely since i first posted to this thread... i'm not thoroughly annoyed as this problem plagues about 75% of the songs i'm hearing, ranging from classical, jazz, punk, folk, and metal.

I plan on isolating one or two songs this weekend and perhaps giving it all a whirl. i'll post back if i do. thanks again!

paul355

Level 1

19 points

Apr 15, 2005 12:23 PM in response to Sallie Hammond

I have one of the "new" 60 Gb iPod Photos - the model that did not come with all the accessories.

When I first got it, I had only used it in my car for the first few days, and I was very happy with the sound quality.

But after seeing enough of these posts, I tried it with solo piano music with both my Bose TriPort headphones and Future Sonics EARS. And sure enough, I could hear a "fuzziness" on some of the louder notes. Listening to the same files through my G5 headphone jack and from my 2G iPod, there was a CLEAR difference.

The 2G iPod sound is virtually indistinguishable to that of the G5 headphone jack. But the iPod Photo clearly has a kind of distortion audible on certain types of music, especially some solo piano recordings.

I am not encouraged by the fact that I have yet to see a post from anyone who has gotten a replacement from Apple that HAS cured the problem. If someone who had identified the problem on their iPod had been able to get a replacement that did not have the problem, that would be proof that not all iPod photos are affected.

This is my fourth and most expensive iPod. It is very disappointing that the sound quality on their flagship model is not at least equal to the others. I certainly am hoping that Apple can come up with a software based fix. I do not intend to return it, since most of my listening is in the car, and I don't hear the defects there. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a hardware issue that we're stuck with.

Paul

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates