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Level 1

65 points

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates

As most of us who have bought the iPod Photo already know, the sound quality IS FLAWED. The distorsion (or background crackling) of high frequency/high output sound (such as piano, high output electric guitar & some deep bass output - however the vocals seem to be fine) is there and something needs to be done about it. Some good examples of where this kind of problem occurs, from what I have found are: Radiohead (most of the OK Computer album), The Hives (the iPod Photo cannot seem to cope with their loud distorted guitar style & very high output), and Incubus (a lot of Morning View). Some people who are still using the tinny, lacklustre stock earbuds, or just don't listen to their music carefully enough, or listen niavely, may still not recognise this.

I refuse to let this issue drop, as I have spent good money on what should be, a technically flawless sound player. I do like this player though (mine is 60GB). The features are good, the photo element is excellent, the 60GB storage is unrivalled, but the main function of the player, to play music, is not good for this one issue. It is so disappointing considering Apple have obviously overlooked this issue (or simply let it slip by thinking nobody would notice), for what is otherwise an excellent piece of equipment.

I record all my music on iTunes, using the MP3 encoder. Some people think the MP3 encoder in iTunes is poor, but it is as good as most. It is all ripped at 224kbps VBR. I use Shure E2c earphones, which are also excellent, and by far the best value for money if you're looking for a warm tone & deep bass in your sound. The step up in price to the Shure E3c might be worth it if you prefer a more detailed, but possibly colder sound.

All that considered, there is absolutely no reason why the sound should be poor on my iPod Photo (when it is fine on the iPod Mini, and using Audio software on my PC), apart from there being a hardware/software glitch. There simply must be. Either that, or something in the sound has been compromised to accomodate the photo elements or colour screen.

I have sent an e-mail to Apple regarding all this, and will hopefully hear from them soon about what is going to be done to resolve this. I will keep this post updated as and when I hear news from them. I also have a case number in motion with their customer services department, and they cannot ignore this anymore.

Something must be done! Redeem yourselves, Apple!

Posted on Apr 10, 2005 10:29 PM

348 replies

Paul M.

Level 4

1,085 points

Apr 15, 2005 1:28 PM in response to Alistair Hart

It's not about being lucky and not noticing the problem. I'm sure in the group of people I used in double blind tests - One of them would have noticed something if there was a defect. If you have scientific evidence that there is a problem - I suggest you take it up with Apple directly, and not just complain about it on a message board. I don't see that you'll accomplish much this way.

ROB C.

Level 3

615 points

Apr 15, 2005 6:45 PM in response to Johnny Wood

I heard that piano distortion you were talking about (I have the Piano Classics album, with Turkish Rondo, Fur Elise, Moonlight Sonata...... etc.), but I went back into iTunes and heard it there, and the same distortion thing was there too. When I listened to my ORIGINAL CD in Windows Media Player..... same thing too. I guess it is how it's put onto the CD because all of my other music is fine. I have the Beatles' song "Hey Jude" on there, and the piano sounds fine in that song. I put the same song on a friend's iPod, and the same distortion was there, and he had a 4G 20-GB. Anyway..... if anyone does find a hard, concrete solution, tune into this post.

ROB C

Johnny Wood Author

Level 1

65 points

Apr 15, 2005 11:13 PM in response to Johnny Wood

Ok this seems to be going WAY off track now. The whole point of this post is for the people who have noticed the sound flaws in their iPod Photos to speak out & let others know what they find out about it. It is not so people who think others are just "kidding themselves" can come and belittle us.

As some of the people who do not have the problem stated themselves: Why would anybody who does not share this problem, bother to come and read this post, and make an effort in writing their own posts as it is people who have a problem that come on here to work it out. They are clearly hypocrites & fail to hold a point to their own argument as THEY THEMSELVES have written in this post!

Nobody here is trying to "scare" anyone away from buying an iPod Photo, we are simply trying to figure out the solutions to OUR own problem.

Another point: If us as the customer raises a point to Apple about the quality of their product, which I have done, then why should we continue to try and figure this problem out for ourselves!? If we bought a car that had a 2 year parts and labour warranty, and then the car started to make strange noises, and under-perform, would we take it apart in our own garage to try and solve the problem or send it to where it came from for instant repair? Yes, we would take the car in, and we would, of course, receive the car back in perfect condition, with the fault repaired. This iPod problem is NO DIFFERENT, so why should Apple get away with it!?

Please only write constructive posts in this topic, that may actually support us or help in aiding towards the solution. Thank you.

Apr 16, 2005 12:15 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Loge - I first exchanged my iPod Photo for another one cuz I originally thought the sound issue was a manufacturing defect. The replacement unit also sounded flawed.

Johnny - Regarding getting the word out, I've posted a review of the iPod photo on Epinions so that people don't put up with an inferior product.

Apr 16, 2005 12:19 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Johnny - yes people are trying to scare people off buying an iPod by insisting that there is definitely something wrong with all of them, which is not true. When I was thinking of buying one I came to this forum to read the problems associated with them, so I'm sure others would do the same. Therefore people should not be able to get away with such lies.

I believe that you people are having problems - infact I think you'll notice that at least I have some constructive advice on things to try...

Here I have one more thing for you. I just reread that your headphones are the Shure E2C. These are a 16ohm headphone. Have you actually tried some higher impedance headphones like I suggested? I would recommend something made by Grado or Sennheiser - take your iPod to a high-end stereo shop and ask to audition one of their best headphones, choose something worth $500-ish. ****, if you still hear the same problems you could perhaps even talk to the stereo shop people for advice 🙂

Either way a trip to listen to some awesome headphones is always fun 🙂

Just no more of this insistance that my iPod has this problem, because it doesn't. cheers

Johnny Wood Author

Level 1

65 points

Apr 16, 2005 12:41 AM in response to Alistair Hart

Do you really think that an iPod should not perform because I'm using 16ohm E2cs? The Apple site actually has these earphones as a recommeded set! I'm not taking this as an excuse, or as a worthy problem.

Yes you have offered some constructive advise which has in fact helped me, as you can read from above, but again, this is not the point here. I think the point is actually slowly moving towards the fact Apple are doing absolutely nothing to try and resolve the problem. Still I have not heard back from them, and when I ring up technical or customer support, I get the same answer; "We know of no fault of this type, sorry!" They do not listen, they don't even care.

I haven't insisted your iPod has this problem either, I have merely posed some questions towards you which you have responded, to which it seems you are a lucky one with a problem free iPod. Cheers Alistair.

Apr 16, 2005 1:06 AM in response to Johnny Wood

No, I personally can't see how it should solve the problem, but I have seen many examples of people saying that it did solve the problem for them. To me it doesn't make sense, however if I had the problem and couldn't return my iPod, I'd try everything that could be a possible solution - you certainly have nothing to lose.

Finally; as I have mentioned in other posts (maybe even in this thread, I forget) Apple does not respond to messages on these forums. So jumping up and down and shouting more isn't going to help at all. If you really want Apple to take notice then I suggest you take the story to the media, who probably would care if all iPod photos are defective - and no company likes bad press.

Johnny Wood Author

Level 1

65 points

Apr 16, 2005 2:02 AM in response to Alistair Hart

Yeah I sent Apple an e-mail. It isn't the post I want them to respond to, although it would be nice if some of these posts were checked to see what customers were saying about them (which Im sure they do). I could still return my iPod but I'd rather stick it out, and wait for the faulty product to be replaced under warranty, as I happened to get the 60GB white box generation with the accessories for only £230, brand new from a shop in New Zealand because the management made a false advertising error, which I would not let drop.

I am also currently travelling round the world & need it to store all my photos on the way round (another reason I can't return it). I have just bought the camera connector, which is effortless to use & very good! When I get home to good old England in August I will still be in warranty if the problem is still not resolved and I will be able to either return it as an unhappy customer directly to Apple or sell on ebay maybe for a profit, even by then.

I am thinkin of buying the E3c or the ER6i set but I'm not sure whether I will get as warm a tone, or bold low range as the E2c I have right now. Can anyone enlighten me on this matter?

Apr 16, 2005 2:28 AM in response to Johnny Wood

this is a link to an audio messageboard that is very good for headphone advice etc. I suggest you have a read around there, or simply take your question to them 🙂

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1

Apr 17, 2005 2:46 PM in response to Johnny Wood

IPp Consumers have right to know what happened on this sound distortion issue if this really bother them. Is this working as hardware design or software deffect? Why so many people complain the same problem?

From political prospective, it is possible that some people want to cover up this sound distortion issue due to their own reason. If this happen, this is understandable.

But no matter what has been said, you can not change the fact that some people did see this sound distortion problem. No need to mention something else such as earphone's impedance, technically the iPp itself caused this sound distortion problem.

The technical solution is so simple. If apple disagree the sound distortion compliant, then just stand out and say apple test your iPp using professional instructment in front of you and show you the result.

Apr 19, 2005 7:27 PM in response to Happy2005

I think I may have this issue too. I was listening to Rage Against The Machine, with my iPod connected to my car stereo via AUX out, and as I turned it up louder, the highs seemed REALLY high, but not sure if that was maybe due to an EQ setting.

What I will do tomorrow is play the original CD in the stereo, then the iPod to see what the difference is.

By the way, I imported the CD (original, store-bought) into iTunes with standard AAC settings, nothing tweaked.

Not good.....

Ken

Sarz

Level 1

45 points

Apr 19, 2005 9:19 PM in response to Ken Jancef

are you kidding? I've found that the sound quality is way better with iPod Photo than the iPod mini I used to have. Best purchase I've made. 🙂

Don J

Level 1

15 points

Apr 21, 2005 11:32 PM in response to Johnny Wood

I recently purchased iPp 40G. It always use it with my receiver. -- At first I noticed about the sound quality problem too, but I thought I might have a bad cable or didn't set something right until I found out about this thread.

I did a quick comparison between my Powerbook running iTunes and my iPod using stock headphone. Lo and behold, output from iPp is actually worse than from Powerbook. Most of funk or acid jazz tracks suffer a bit from this problem. Singer's voice sounds flat comparing to an output from PB. But when I try vocal jazz & piano tracks, it stood out right away.

Not sure what it's called, but there's something definitely wrong with the treble (clipping?). I turned off "Sound Check", it sounded a bit better. I haven't tried MP3Gain/AACGain yet, I hope this would finally solve the problem.

This is my first iPod and I'm really disappointed. I thought it would "just works" like MacOS X. The worse thing is that Apple doesn't recognize this problem nor tries to solve it. -- My guess is that they won't fix anything and just released 'fixed' version later. Sound quality problem is not easy to tell, prove, or quantify. Apple could get away with this easily unlike the infamous logic board problem.

Heck, I never expect über-high quality output from iPp, but have to say that a $300-400 piece of audio player shouldn't sound this bad.

Norith

Level 1

9 points

Apr 22, 2005 12:08 PM in response to Don J

I've had my 40Gb iPod Photo since just before Christmas (2004) and I think that the sound quality is actually superior to the 3G model it replaced. However, I think that most of the perceived "distortions" which some people are experiencing, could be the result of differing encoding techniques and little to do with ears, headphones or even the iPod's technology itself.

I have noticed that some CD's are recorded at a higher volume level and sometimes, because the input signal is higher, it will distort when amplified (playback). This is carried through to the encoding of MP3 files and the resultant effect will be apparent, distorted sound, no matter whether it's being played through an expensive computer sound system, or an Apple iPod. If recording levels are too high on the original CD, then the resulting encoded MP3 (or whatever encoded output is used) file will suffer as well.

I suggest that if your CD ripper/encoder, will allow for recording level adjustment and normalization, then experiment with it and use it. Also, experiment with the iPod's built in equalizer, as I have noticed that some settings will definately distort high end frequencies, as well as bass frequencies, while others actually enhance the sound quality. Turn off the EQ and see if the problem persists. If it does, then go back to the basic ripping technique. I have noticed that all the files I've downloaded from iTunes, don't suffer any perceptive distortion, while others which I have ripped myself, occasionally do. I think it's all a matter of technique and recording levels and NOT the iPod itself. I have actually "fixed" a troublesome track recorded from a CD, using Cool Edit Pro and believe me it made a world of difference when played back through my iPod. Not just the Photo but models 4G, 3G and 2G as well. The ONLY gripe I have with Apple and their playback technology is that they STILL don't have any means of crossfading tracks on their MP3 devices.

There are far too many variables involved for anyone to come right out and make a generic statement saying that the iPod Photo's technology (hardware and or software) is flawed. I believe that the problem is rooted in the methods of music file encoding and not the iPod itself. When one buys an iPod, they are buying a basic device which allows for the playback of digitally encoded files. That's where Apple's responsibility ends. How the end user decides to load the files onto their iPod is up to them and their use of common sense and their knowledge of digital encoding techniques. When you purchase a piece of modern technology, you better be prepared to know how it works and why, or you'll always be having problems, brought on by your own limitations. "If you can't drive it, leave it in the garage".

I don't have any affiliation with Apple, apart from being the proud owner of an Apple iPod Photo, attached by Firewire to a Windows XP System. No problems at all.

Apr 22, 2005 12:32 PM in response to Johnny Wood

Norith and others.....

Those of us complaining on these threads are not making generic statements...we are comparing the same song files played on different iPod models. That is the basis for us having issues with the iPod Photo sound quality. Please read all the threads and discussions about this topic.

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates