Color is off on my MBP 17" display - cool/purple bias won't go away

hi,

thanks for the input. just thought i would add a link to the 15" UMBP where people are also having an issue with their display.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1757558&tstart=0

On Friday 5/8/09 I introduced a friend to the relatively new Apple store at the Memorial Shopping Center here in Houston TX because she is seriously considering switching to an Apple laptop from her current old and slow Dell laptop. I wanted to show her the MacBooks and MacBook Pros and the glossy screens on the MacBooks versus the optional non-glossy screen on the 17" MacBook Pro. I too am considering moving up to a MacBook Pro and also wanted to more closely examine the difference between the screen types and sizes. All of the laptops and desktops at that store were configured to show an Apple video presentation when not being used otherwise. As is typical of Apple sales materials, the color pure white is predominant in the backgrounds and throughout the video action. On the MacBooks and 15" MacBook Pros, the colors are vibrant and the white is bright and PURE. All of the MacBooks and 15" MacBook Pros looked identical in pure whiteness and brightness. Unfortunately, the VERY EXPENSIVE 17" MacBook Pros did not match the MacBooks or 15" MacBook Pros in pure whiteness or brightness. Both the glossy and non-glossy demo models of the 17" MacBook Pros displayed the same heavy bluish cast, and were not as bright. It was ridiculous how far off they were from pure white compared with the less expensive MacBooks and 15" MacBook Pros standing right next to them. The salespersons agreed that the color was way off to the blue side on the 17" Pros but were unable to offer a reason for this, or any suggestion that adjustments could be made to remove the blue cast. THIS IS A VERY SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS. Why would anyone seriously consider putting down $3+ grand for a 17" laptop labeled "PRO" when these computers are unable to accurately display white or any of the other colors? There is really no excuse for this kind of obvious display anomaly in such expensive machines in an Apple store. So, what is wrong with the displays on the 17" MacBook Pros?!

Just go into System Preferences > Displays > Color and make sure that "Color LCD" is selected. You can do this right in the store (and teach the salesperson a kind lesson). If one of the available RGB color spaces is selected, then you get the hot (~9300 K) color temp and resultant blue cast. the "Color LCD" setting gives you a 6500 K color temp and thus whiter whites. The 17" displays are not as bright as the 15" displays. I suppose the question is, "Are they bright enough for me?" In my case, "Yes." In yours, maybe "No." It's not a case of Apple "cheaping out" on the 17's; it's just the nature of the bigger TN displays at this time.

That said, there has been a graphics firmware update for the 17" unibody machines and the demo machines may not have been updated. Also, apparently most of the 17" unibodies that were deployed as demo units in the Apple Stores (and some rumored to have been set up at the factory), were set up by simply cloning a standard 15" unibody installation to them. As such there were said to be some missing or different graphics OS bits that shipped with the restoration disks which were not loaded onto those particular 17" unibody machines. It could be that the machine(s) you looked at in the store were so affected.

It's been less than 3 months since the rollout, so it is doubtful that the original demo machines would have been turned over. The prices of those Bad Boys make refurbs pretty tempting and I have yet to see one! I positively love mine, but $2799 buys off a lot of cognitive dissonance.

Message was edited by: Gary K.

Apple Retail does not use refurbished computers for replacements. CRU's, as they are known, are directly from retail inventory.

Yeah, I imagine refurbishing a machine that has been used as a demo would be a little harder anyway. For example, the unibody chunk is subject to nicks from watches and so forth and replacing that would be more of a complete rebuild than a refurbishment!

I wonder if, when they retire those demo units, if they deploy them internally or put them up for sale for Apple employees. Independent Apple resellers such as Powermax/The Mac Store in the Portland area also offer refurbished machines, but no 17" unibodies that i have seen (15"ers, yes,but rarely).

That is incorrect information regarding the glossy screens. Provided you are in a dark environment during calibration, the glossy screens calibrated fine. My Gretag MacBeth i1 (spectrophotometer) works well with LCD's whether glossy or matte. However, it works best if you do not follow the normal instruction of placing the sensor directly on the screen. Instead, I mount the sensor about 10 inches away from the screen with its sense axis PERPENDICULAR to the screen surface. Pulling it back restricts the sensor to seeing that is exiting the screen perpendicularly and improves the calibration accuracy. Otherwise, off angle light also affects the sensor and you end up with a less accurate calibration. The room must be otherwise dark. BTW, you can't restrict the viewing angle of the Spyder (tri-stimulus sensor) in this manner.

The out of box LCD calibration for every single of the 12 macBooks and macBook Pro's I currently utilize were unacceptably tinted for critical viewing. Each one arrives from Apple with a different color characteristic. Even ones of the same model don't necessarily color match each other out of the box. The unit to unit variability of displays makes it impossible for a manufacturer to deliver a truly calibrated display. Many are glossy screens, but calibration to d65 gamma 2.4 (to simulate CRT response), grayscales are neutral and much more consistent from machine to machine. Each panel needs to be profiled individually and re-profiled periodically to deliver accurate color representation. It takes about 6 minutes per display so the process isn't practical for the manufacturer to do on each unit. Even if Apple did calibrate the displays individually, they drift over time. I recalibrate my main screens once per month. More critical users may need to do it more often.

Very few people have had the opportunity to enjoy a calibrate image. Until recently, the cost of an accurate measuring instrument was been prohibitive. Now, there isn't much of a cost barrier. An X-Rite EYE-ONE Display LT Monitor Calibrator streets about $150. Just make sure you get one with a multiple workstation license. Once you know what a calibrated display looks like, your eyes won't tolerate a non-calibrated display. A calibration device makes a huge difference and is far more accurate than the subjective guess by eye method included with OSX.

Um, dunno whether it was to my response you are referring; it's been a while since I posted...

I use all those calibrators daily; particularly the Gretag Spectros... never tried that method with the perpendicular positioning; I might give that a shot & compare its accuracy to the 'dark room' method that I've been using with the glossy displays and my various Spectros...

I've always assumed that every laptop and every monitor I've ever un-boxed for the last 15 years has been hideously out-of calibration; in maybe seven or eight instances has that iron-clad assumption been wrong, unfortunately... although it's helped my consulting business quite a bit!

I prefer, at the low-end, the Eye-One Display 2; it's software and overall construction and design are nice for entry-level device. Are there any differences between the straight-up Eye-One Display 2 and the 'LT'? My experience with the EOD is with the '2', rather than the 'LT'.

I agree- once you've enjoyed using a properly-calibrated display, nothing else is eve remotely tolerable! ;^)

Best,

Charlie

Actually was in response to David's impossible to calibrate glossies comment.

The threading display mechanism here begs for improvement

Open box, returns etc. are all returned to Apple and then refurbished and offered to Apple Authorized Retailer, but not corporate retail stores. You can also purchase refurbished units via the online Apple Store.

The only really good play I had with a 17" unibody in a shop was definitely suffering from a significant (to the point of being unusable) bluish tint and washed out colours that the 15" wasn't displaying. In the end, it didn't put me off buying one because of the liklihood (in my mind) that it was either a calibration or firmware fixeable issue. I've had fantastic support from Apple in the past regarding hardware faults/breakdowns. Indeed I had the display replaced twice on my previous MacBook Pro under warranty so I wasn't concerned in the slightest that I'd be "stuck" with a defective display. I'm still waiting for my unibody 17 to arrive so I can report on whether the issue is present out of the box or whether they've improved the default calibration (if indeed that is the problem).

I just received a new MBP 2.93, fully updated with OS Build 9j61.

I am having the same horrible blue tint and faded, no contrast issue.

I would like to add something that might help figure out this issue.

I originally used the laptop prior to restoring from my TIme machine backup.
I believe that the screen looked fine at that point. I can swear by it because I didn't
use it very long like that. I then did a restore from Time Machine using my CD.

I then clearly noticed a terrible color cast on my screen.

I am trying to figure out if it brought over the profiles/drivers from my old NON unibody MBP?

I called Apple Level 2 and they could not help me. They sent a ticket to engineering.

Is there a way to check if I have the default profiles and drivers that should come with this machine?
I understand that an archive and install would reinstall the operating system but I would lose all my 3rd party applications? Is that correct?

I would really appreciate any detailed advice. I have a Eye One and I am going to calibrate, but
I would first like to get the defaults correct.

Thanks

Eric

I wanted to give an update to my issue.
I just did a color calibration with my Eye One Pro.
The blue cast is much better. I did the simple and advance calibration.
The advance at 6500 and 2.2 is a slight bit warmer.

I thought things were much better until I started to look through my Lightroom library or photos that
I had posted on line.

What I noticed is that the pictures looked darker and very washed out. I found myself bumping up the exposure and blacks.

Has anyone found a solution yet?

Also, does anyone know how I can check if I have profiles/drivers from my original MBP (see above post) that came over from my time machine back up.

Thanks and good luck to all with the same problem.

Eric

Could this be due to the images having been originally done on a machine with std Mac gamma of 1.8? If they were originally made to look good on a 1.8 gamma screen, they will look much darker on a gamma 2.2 screen. That gamma difference used to mean all my mac originated images looked too dark on PC's. I finally gave up on maintaining std mac gamma and instead build my images on a gamma 2.4 display to emulate CRT response. (I use 2.4 instead of 2.2 because much of my work was for video and it was important to emulate what things would look like on a higher end CRT)

Hate to sound truculent, but a 'professional' wouldn't be rumbling around on this forum making all kinds of noise about a 'display incapable of calibration', and no, if you're this far into the woods on a simple issue such as this, you don't know how to 'calibrate a screen.'

The 'helpful info' as you disdainfully sniff you're missing, has already been put forth, by myself and other; you've conveniently chosen to ignore it.

Once again, focus on the software. The drivers. First. Then, hardware profiling.

You can easily have an Apple Tech verify its hardware status; your list's redundant.

Since you need the 17's special 'wide-gamut' drivers, run Pacifist on your Restore disk. That's just one of several methods available to solve this very common issue.

You're welcome.

Follow Up Update

After getting frustrated with the terrible color -- even after a calibration --
I did an archive and install to get back original profiles and drivers.

IT HELPED A LOT.

First of all, I noticed that the list of profiles was different then before.
It looks acceptable on the basic Color LCD.

I have concluded for me that most of problem came from the old profiles/drivers from
my old MBP (non LED) being brought over to my new LED laptop.

I am hoping those who might have done the same thing.

All the best.

Eric