Dual Booting 9.2.2 and 10.4

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Level 1

8 points

Dual Booting 9.2.2 and 10.4

I would like to dual boot OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4 on a iBook Clamshell G3 (Firewire). The iBook already has 10.4, and I have tried using classic environment but I find that it runs very slow which is why I want to dual boot. I have already partitioned the iBook and installed OS 9, but when I try to boot in to OS 9 all that I get is a floppy disk with a blinking question mark. I have tried setting OS 9 as the startup disk from within OS 10.4, but I still get the floppy disk with the blinking question mark. I am hoping someone can tell me how to resolve the problem. Thanks.

Power Mac G4, eMac, iBook G3 clamshell, iBook G3 dual USB, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on May 9, 2009 1:37 PM

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Answer 1

May 9, 2009 2:03 PM in response to Mario1776

Hi, Mario1776 -

Some things that may apply.

• Format of drive.

When you partitioned the hard drive, did you use OSX's Disk Utility to do so? If so, if the option to install OS 9 drivers was not selected, then that volume can not be used as a boot volume for OS 9. The absence of the drivers does not affect the use of OS 9 as Classic, but their absence will prevent OS 9 (used as an OS) from being able to mount the volume.

If this is the case, it may be possible to recover without reformatting the drive. See the section headed Using Drive Setup in this Apple KBase article -
Article #TA20774 - Disk Is Available in Mac OS X But Not in Mac OS 9

• Blessing of System Folder.

It is possible, especially if the OS 9 System Folder was copied from another volume, that it became unblessed in the process. To rebless that System Folder, boot the machine to an OS 9 install CD. Then do one of the following -

1) Open the System Folder on the hard drive and double-click the file named System. Close the window that opens and close the System Folder.

2) Open the System Folder and drag the files Finnder and System out to the desktop. Close the System Folder. Drop those two files back into the closed System Folder.

A blessed System Folder means one which the Mac recognizes as being a valid System Folder. When it is blessed, it displays the Mac OS logo glyph superimposed on the folder icon (at least it does so when the machine is bootd to OS 9; not sure about when it is booted to OSX).

• 8GB limit.

If the hard drive on that machine was replaced with one 8GB or larger, and the OS 9 partition is not within the first 8GB of the drive, that partition can not be used for booting. This issue is addressed in this Apple Kbase article -
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22193

Note that the requirement is that the boot volume be contained within the first 8GB. This means that the boot partition(s) must be, in total, a bit smaller than the first 8GB. If a single boot partition is used, a good size for that partition is 7.7GB.

OS 9 and OSX are designed to share the same volume (partition) and both be used for booting; the install of OS 9 can be used for both booting and as Classic.

***

If by chance that OS was installed by copying the System Folder from an OS 9 install CD, that won't work - those System Folders are modified, and will run only from the CD.

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Answer 2

May 9, 2009 10:36 PM in response to Mario1776

Hi, Mario1776 -

According to the iPartition FAQ, iPartition should not prevent using a partition created with it as a boot volume for OS 9.

When a drive has been formatted with a non-Apple utility, it is not unusual for OS 9's Drive Setup to not be able to recognize it as other than a non-initialized drive. Sometimes Drive Setup won't be able to alter or redo a drive which has been so formatted.

The same result will happen if the drive was formatted using OSX's Disk Utility, and the option to install OS 9 drivers was not selected.

If the drive was replaced and the new one was initially formatted using OSX's Disk Utility and OS 9 drivers were not installed at that time, then OS 9's Drive Setup will not be able to re-install OS 9 drivers - it is only possible for Drive Setup to do that if the OS 9 drivers had once been on the drive. Even then, that method of recovery rarely works. It then becomes necessary, if one wants to be able to use the drive for OS 9 booting, to re-initialize the drive, making sure to install OS 9 drivers (optional with OSX's Disk Utility, automatic with OS 9's Drive Setup).

It may help of you could answer a few questions:

• How large is the hard drive?

• How large is the partition with OSX on it?

• How large is the OS 9 partition?

***

Another possibility is to use an external firwire drive for OS 9 booting. Since your iBook has native firewire, it is firewire bootable.
Article #HT2699 - FireWire Booting

The trick here is that OS 9's Drive Setup can not initialize a firewire drive. However, OSX's Disk Utility can. You can use Disk Utility to initialize and format such a drive, being sure to install OS 9 drivers, then boot to the OS 9 Install CD and install OS 9 on the drive.

As far as selecting it as the boot volume, use Startup Disk (control panel in OS 9, in System Preferences in OSX) to choose the volume to use for booting on the next startup.

You can also use Startup Manager to make that choice at the beginning of booting -
Article #HT1310 - Startup Manager: How to Select a Startup Volume

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Answer 3

May 10, 2009 9:35 PM in response to Mario1776

Hi, Mario -

The hard drive is 10 GB.
The partition with OSX on it is 9 GB.
The OS 9 partition is 1 GB.

As I mentioned earlier, the G3 iBook (Firewire) is subject to the 8GB limit as deisussed in this KBase article -
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22193

Assuming the OSX partition is the first one, the OS 9 partition is well outside of the 8GB limit, and so can not be used for booting (any OS) on that model.

Odd that, if the first partition is more than 8GB as you have stated, you were able to install OSX on that partition. According to this KBase article that should not be permitted by the installer -
Article #TA20420 - OSX: Disk Appears "Grayed Out" in Installer

Perhaps you used iPartition to adjust the sizes of the partitions after OSC was installed?

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Answer 4

Mario1776 Author

Level 1

8 points

May 11, 2009 2:47 PM in response to Don Archibald

This only happens with certain Macintosh computers that originally had a hard drive smaller than 8 GB, and that have now been upgraded with a hard drive larger than 8 GB.

I do not think my situation would apply because I believe that the 9.36GB hard drive in the iBook is original, not an upgrade. I highly doubt someone went through the 70 steps necessary to access the clamshell hard drive to upgrade to only 9.36GB. I am speaking in uncertain terms because I do not know their entire life story. I got my iBooks (and a ton of other Mac stuff) out of the trash. What is hilarious is that the newest of my iGarbage, two dual usb iBooks, are also the most useless due to the endemic failure of the soldering for the logic processor. But I digress...

The hard drive is 10 GB. The partition with OSX on it is 9 GB. The OS 9 partition is 1 GB.

I made a mistake when I said the hard drive was 10GB. The iBook's hard drive is 9.36GB, and the 10.4 partition was 8.36GB and the 9.2.2 partition was 1GB.

I would like to dual boot OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4 on a iBook Clamshell G3 (Firewire).

I decided to bite the bullet and repartition, erasing all data. I did 2 partitions: #1 1 GB OS9 and #2 8.36 GB OS10.4. I had no trouble installing 10.4 to the 8.36 GB partition. Both OS9 and OS10.4 boot and are working properly.

Odd that, if the first partition is more than 8GB as you have stated, you were able to install OSX on that partition. According to this KBase article that should not be permitted by the installer - Article #TA20420 - OSX: Disk Appears "Grayed Out" in Installer

The thesis, that a partition larger than 8GB can't boot OS X; the antithesis, that I was able to install 10.4 to a 8.36GB partition and boot it; the synthesis, that a partition larger than 8GB can boot OS 10.4.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22193
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20420

I believe the two links you posted regard OS 10.0. The 2nd link explicitly says OS 10.0 under products affected. The information in both articles was last updated August 24, 2004, 10.4 was released April 29 2005 (8 months later). I suppose it is possible that the information is supposed to apply to OS X, all versions, but experimentation seems to disprove that.

still get the floppy disk with the blinking question mark. I am hoping someone can tell me how to resolve the problem

The solution is to:
1. Initialize/Partition the hard drive using OS9 Drive Setup.
NOTE: Doing this will erase all the data on the hard drive. If necessary, you can backup a critical partition or other data to temporary storage (e.g. an external hard drive) using OS X Disk Utility's Restore feature, then restore the data from temporary storage to the newly created partition.
2. Install OS9 on to the 1st hard drive partition.
3. Install OS X on to the 2nd hard drive partition.

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Answer 5

May 9, 2009 4:09 PM in response to Don Archibald

If by chance that OS was installed by copying the System Folder from an OS 9 install CD, that won't work - those System Folders are modified, and will run only from the CD.

I have only one comment to your excellent response. If Mario copied the system folder from an Install CD to the target disk, he would get a message as he booted the system to the effect "This system folder can only be used from the original CD".

Gary

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Answer 6

Mario1776 Author

Level 1

8 points

May 9, 2009 9:57 PM in response to Don Archibald

I partitioned the drive using iPartition. I tried to use Drive Setup to update drivers but I do not get the option to update the drivers. Drive Setup only displays the presence of the CD and the hard drive, but it doesn't notice the two partitions on the hard drive. Drive Setup says that the hard drive has to be Initialized to be usable. Is there a software tool that could be used fix the problem without formatting the drive, like Tech Tool or Disk Warrior?

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Answer 7

Mario1776 Author

Level 1

8 points

May 10, 2009 5:05 PM in response to Don Archibald

The trick here is that OS 9's Drive Setup can not initialize a firewire drive. However, OSX's Disk Utility can. You can use Disk Utility to initialize and format such a drive, being sure to install OS 9 drivers, then boot to the OS 9 Install CD and install OS 9 on the drive.

I was really hopefully that this would resolve the problem, but to use disk utility for one of the two partitions on the drive would mean formatting the entire drive. Disk Utility won't allow working on only a partition. I am hoping that there would be a solution that would not require erasing the entire hard drive.

The hard drive is 10 GB.
The partition with OSX on it is 9 GB.
The OS 9 partition is 1 GB.

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