Cycling '74 discontinues Pluggo (Moves Pluggo Technology to 'Max for Live')

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Cycling '74 discontinues Pluggo (Moves Pluggo Technology to 'Max for Live')

Since Cycling '74 32-bit software/plugins (Pluggo/AudioUnit Scan) are no longer being developed and max4live will be developed for Ableton Live 8, does this mean Logic Pro future development/updates will not support 32 and 64-bit Audio Unit plugins? How many other top Audio Unit plugin developers are going to follow suit, and decide to stop their 64-bit plugin development/support for Logic Pro and Snow Leopard? See the links below...

*Pluggo Technology Moves to Max for Live*
http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/5/14/101259/594

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/11565.html

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/05/15/cycling-74-ditches-plug-in-development- support-free-commercial-alternatives/

http://www.mspinky.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=907

Posted on May 27, 2009 8:18 PM

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Answer 1

Syphen Author

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May 27, 2009 9:42 PM in response to Syphen

What functionality can users expect to adapt to as far as 32-bit and 64-bit Audio Unit plugin support with the next Logic Pro update? Do we wait and see or take our chances and purchase a Mac Pro (Early 2009) that can not run any version of Leopard lower than 10.5.6 custom just for the 2009 Mac Pro's and higher Mac OS only, not lower Mac OS? The Mac Pro (Early 2008) will allow us to run Leopard, Mac OS 10.5.1-10.5.5, and higher with Logic Pro 8.0.2, 32-bit AU's, Cycling '74 Pluggo/AudioUnit Scan plugins, and MaxMSP/Jitter/Cyclops just fine for now.....

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Answer 2

Syphen Author

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May 27, 2009 10:15 PM in response to Syphen

Due to the fact that it simply may not be cost-effective to support 64 plug-in specifications on two different platforms, particularly given the increasing absence of standardization of host platforms, top developers must be aware of, could some of our cherished 32-bit Audio Unit plugins only continue to work with no later than early 2008 macintosh computers that will allow Mac OS Leopard 10.5.1-10.5.5 to be installed with Logic Pro 8.0.2? So, is it cost effective for Logic Pro users using 32-bit AU plugins to purchase an Mac Pro (Early 2009) chancing whether or not 32 and 64-bit AU plugins will be supported?

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Answer 3

May 27, 2009 10:46 PM in response to Syphen

We've seen things like this coming for a long time.. I made the decision to switch to Logic, when it was still Emagic - lucky for me, Apple bought them.. And with that, I quickly realized, how we get 'locked into one 'box'.. Buying the Apogee Duet, was a 'no-brainer'.

I recently wanted to work with another producer using Pro-tools. He couldn't afford the $500 dollar translater program.. Other friends said not to bother just export every track in Logic, starting at measure 1, beat 1, etc.

But with all the plug-ins currently available it gets harder and harder. There are some wonderful, VI's out there.. But with every processor change, OS update, new generation of technology, all the old equipment has the potential, to devalue tremendously, or become worthless.

I used to buy every new thing that came along.. Now I'm much more cautious in my purchases.

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Answer 4

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 9:05 AM in response to Mark Styles

So, will Logic Pro's 64-bit update continue "Extreme Compatibility" with our precious 32-bit Audio Unit plugins as well as new 64-bit Audio Unit plugins, like Cubase 5 64-bit can for PC with VST plugins? I need to know whether or not I could replace my Mac Pro Early 2008 with the Early 2009 "Nehalem" model and continue to use my 32-bit Pluggo/AudioUnit Scan plugins, the rest of my Cycling '74 software, and any other 32-bit Audio Unit plugins into the future? Shall I answer my own question without certainty and no validation from Apple or the invisible Emagic Developer teams? At least Cycling '74 is forthcoming and honest with their development decisions to it loyal users. Cycling '74 does not command even close to their software/plugins value to what Apple commands the value for Mac Pro's from its loyal users. Even Wizoo was honest to its loyal users when they chose not to support the Intel Mac platform with further Audio Unit plugin developement.

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Answer 5

noeqplease

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3,589 points

May 28, 2009 8:59 AM in response to Syphen

Hi Syphen,

This is the most speculative post I have read in at least a month.

If there were an award for speculative posts, you surely would get it.

You don't happen to work in market futures, do ya? I hope not.

Here's my thought on all your speculation:

Are you a hobbyist, or a full time audio engineer?

If you are a full time engineer, why on earth are you worrying about any of this? Your accountant (you do use one, yes?) will factor in upgrades as part of what is commonly known as :

COST OF OPERATIONS.

There, your upgrades now did not cost you one penny, as they will be deducted from your taxes.

Cheers

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Answer 6

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 9:08 AM in response to noeqplease

"Speculation is only a word covering the making of money out of the manipulation of prices, instead of supplying goods and services."
by Henry Ford

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Answer 7

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,910 points

May 28, 2009 9:11 AM in response to Syphen

Since Cycling '74 32-bit software/plugins (Pluggo/AudioUnit Scan) are no longer being developed

Oh, really? Shame, but I always found Pluggo to be, er, unreliable at best...

max4live will be developed for Ableton Live 8

Sure, looks like a cool product.

does this mean Logic Pro future development/updates will not support 32 and 64-bit Audio Unit plugins?

Er... you lost me here. What have the first two points got to do with Logic development?

It's a bit like saying: "Because I like chips, and I also like toffee, does this mean I'm going to have to buy a new lawnmower?"

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Answer 8

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 9:24 AM in response to Bee Jay

When I wrote, "does this mean Logic Pro future development/updates will not support 32 and 64-bit Audio Unit plugins," I am meaning that Cycling '74 decision may be a sign that other top developers will not continue to develope their Audio Unit plugins into 64-bit for Logic Pro.

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Answer 9

Bee Jay

Level 6

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May 28, 2009 9:17 AM in response to Syphen

I expect you'll still be able to run Logic in 32-bit mode if necessary, so I wouldn't worry too much.

OSX already provides a 32/64-bit toggle for 64-bit compliled applications.

As for the rest. no-one who knows is allowed to tell, so you'll just have to wait and see like the rest of us...

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Answer 10

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 9:50 AM in response to Bee Jay

So, "OSX already provides a 32/64-bit toggle for 64-bit compliled applications." Then will that be like turning on or off Rosetta currently with Logic Pro? For example, Waves plugins will not be available to Logic Pro when Rosetta is on. So, will Logic Pro only use 32-bit AU plugins when toggled to 32 and only 64-bit AU plugins when toggled to 64? With the toggle will 32/64-bit AU plugins be available during any current Logic Pro project?

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Answer 11

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,910 points

May 28, 2009 9:49 AM in response to Syphen

You're asking questions that no-one can answer at the moment.

I can speculate, but as that makes no difference on what the actual reality will end up being, it's a bit pointless...

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Answer 12

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 9:53 AM in response to Bee Jay

As far as Apple Computer goes, I quoted previously the following:

"Speculation is only a word covering the making of money out of the manipulation of prices, instead of supplying goods and services."
by Henry Ford

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Answer 13

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,910 points

May 28, 2009 9:54 AM in response to Syphen

You're assuming this 32/64 bit issue was the issue that made Cycling give up on plugin development, and I don't think that's a wise assumption.

That is not what their statement says - they specifically say that support three different plugin formats, on two different platforms, was too much for them.

PC VST, RTAS, Mac Audio Unit, VST, RTAS

Audio Units are one part of that, but by no means the biggest. Don't forget Windows is going through the same 32/64-bit transition as well.

Apple have a good pro audio market, Logic and Garageband penetration is very high, and thus most devs are unlikely to abandon making Audio Unit plugins in the near future. That would be my speculation.

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Answer 14

Syphen Author

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May 28, 2009 11:15 AM in response to Bee Jay

"Audio Units are one part of that, but by no means the biggest. Don't forget Windows is going through the same 32/64-bit transition as well.

Apple have a good pro audio market, Logic and Garageband penetration is very high, and thus most devs are unlikely to abandon making Audio Unit plugins in the near future."

Bee Jay, you have contradicted your statements. How could any user Logically judge and budget upgrades as part of their COST OF OPERATIONS for any later Mac Pro purchase than the Mac Pro (Early 2008) if they have no idea of what to expect next from Logic Pro development, in essence, misleading a user/consumer buying decision of features and functions that may or may not even be true or available with Logic Pro used on any newer Mac Pro beyond (Early 2008) models to insure, backward and future "Extreme Compatibility" with logic Pro functions and features?

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Answer 15

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,910 points

May 28, 2009 11:30 AM in response to Syphen

Bee Jay, you have contradicted your statements.

Er... I don't think I have...

How could any user Logically judge and budget upgrades as part of their COST OF
OPERATIONS for any later Mac Pro purchase than the Mac Pro (Early 2008) if they
have no idea of what to expect next from Logic Pro developmen

You can't for sure. You know Apple don't say anything about future developments for any of their ProApps, don't you? You make a best estimate, and adjust if reality differs from your expections, which sometimes happens.

misleading a user/consumer buying decision of features and functions that may or
may not even be true or available with Logic Pro used on any newer Mac Pro beyond

I'm lost now. You asked for speculation, and I'm speculating given my experience and opinions. I don't see how Apple are "deliberately misleading" anybody by saying nothing about anything that isn't currently already released and available.

So how exactly have I "contradicted my statements"..?

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