Canon IRC3200--when scanned dox is sent to Mac 10.5.7 with wrong date

Hi there. This was an interesting read, especially since we also use the Send function from our iR copiers. I've never looked at the creation date previously, as we only ever see the Modified Date in the Finder view. But after doing a Get Info this morning on a PDF scanned via SMB, I can see a similar symptom.

In my case, the Get Info on the PDF shows "Created: Thursday, 1 January 1970 9.59 AM" but "Modified: Today at 11:25 AM". However, if I open the PDF in Acrobat and look at the Document Properties for the file, the created date/time is displayed the same as the modified date/time.

Then as a test, I scanned from the same Canon iR to another Mac running 10.4.11. In this case, both the created and modified dates were the same.

So it appears to be an issue with 10.5 but I'm not sure if it is just .7 or if previous versions also show the same. I will do some more checking but it looks like it is an 10.5 issue rather than it being something you need to adjust on the copier.

Just with regards to the created date that is shown via Get Info. This appears to be the default clock for the OS. Previously I have found that when I use BootCamp to use XP, when I reboot back into OS X, the clock defaults to Jan 1 1970. This is for my MacBook Pro (build 9J61) and Mac Pro (also build 9J61). I'm guessing your Mac is an older build and hence the different default date.

PaHu

This morning I copied some of the scanned files from the Mac Pro running 10.5.7 in the lab to my MBP running 10.5.7 on the office network. When I do a Get Info on these files, they show two hyphens next to the Created row, such as this " - - ".

By comparison, the files scanned to the 10.4.11 Mac and now viewed on my MBP still show the correct created and modified date/times. So there is definitely something wrong with 10.5.

Just a final point. The default file name created by the machine shows the time set in the copier, such as YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.pdf. You will notice that this time stamp is very close to the modified time shown in the Mac, albeit a minute or two different in my case. Would this not be enough for legal reasons to show the time the documents were scanned?

Also, if you did find a way to change this created date, would that be regarded as legal?

And, if you did scan the files as pdf, which is basically still a TIFF file but with a postscript header, you can view the document properties in Acrobat and see the correct creation date.

Overall I think you will need to take this up with Apple, unless someone else knows if something can be done via Terminal or AppleScript. FYI this is just a user forum, no Apple representation here.

PaHu

Have a read of this article...

http://ask.metafilter.com/68713/Date-Created-Date-Modified

PaHu

I did some more testing this evening with several different models of Canon iR and I now believe the issue has something to do with the Canon's and the way in which 10.5 interprets the metadata. Using Terminal, I examined the metadata of several scanned files (mdls filename). There appears to be two sections within the metadata that reference creation dates. For the files that show the correct created date, both sections are correct. But for the odd creation dates, the first reference is definitely the cause of the fault.

For Acrobat, it must be referencing the second section, as the creation date in Document Properties is always correct. But it seems that Finder is using the first created date reference which some models of Canon iR's are setting incorrectly (assuming the Canon is somehow sending this information with the file).

Based on my results I suggest you contact your Canon service agent and get them to escalate to Canon HQ. I will supply more details about my test results tommorrow.

PaHu

On my test Mac, I have a Scans folder that I have used previously for testing purposes. Inside of this folder is a scanned tiff file that does show the same date/time for the created and modified file. Interestingly, on the same day, there is another tiff that shows different times for the created and modified. This file has a modified date/time of 12/06/2008 12:18 PM, however the created date/time shows 01/01/1904, 10.00 AM.

Because it was over a year ago I cannot remember which Canon iR machine the correct creation date file was scanned from but I assume that it was a different machine to the file that is shown incorrectly.

Looking at the metadata list in Terminal (mdls filename) for the file 20080612021023.tif, which shows the correct creation date, the list shows the following information.

lab-mac-pro:Scans pahu$ mdls 20080612021023.tif
kMDItemBitsPerSample = 3
kMDItemColorSpace = "Gray"
kMDItemContentCreationDate = 2008-06-12 12:16:00 +1000
kMDItemContentModificationDate = 2008-06-12 12:16:00 +1000
kMDItemContentType = "public.tiff"
kMDItemContentTypeTree = (
"public.tiff",
"public.image",
"public.data",
"public.item",
"public.content"
)
kMDItemDisplayName = "20080612021023.tif"
kMDItemFSContentChangeDate = 2008-06-12 12:16:00 +1000
kMDItemFSCreationDate = 2008-06-12 12:16:00 +1000
kMDItemFSCreatorCode = ""
kMDItemFSFinderFlags = 0
kMDItemFSHasCustomIcon = 0
kMDItemFSInvisible = 0
kMDItemFSIsExtensionHidden = 0
kMDItemFSIsStationery = 0
kMDItemFSLabel = 0
kMDItemFSName = "20080612021023.tif"
kMDItemFSNodeCount = 0
kMDItemFSOwnerGroupID = 20
kMDItemFSOwnerUserID = 501
kMDItemFSSize = 35372
kMDItemFSTypeCode = ""
kMDItemHasAlphaChannel = 0
kMDItemKind = "TIFF image"
kMDItemLastUsedDate = 2008-09-12 09:44:01 +1000
kMDItemOrientation = 1
kMDItemPixelHeight = 2335
kMDItemPixelWidth = 1651
kMDItemResolutionHeightDPI = 200
kMDItemResolutionWidthDPI = 200
kMDItemUsedDates = (
2008-06-12 00:00:00 +1000,
2008-09-04 00:00:00 +1000,
2008-09-12 00:00:00 +1000
)

By comparison, the next scan showing the incorrect creation date has the following metadata.

lab-mac-pro:Scans pahu$ mdls 20080612021250.tif
kMDItemBitsPerSample = 3
kMDItemColorSpace = "Gray"
*kMDItemContentCreationDate = 1970-01-01 09:59:59 +1000*
kMDItemContentModificationDate = 2008-06-12 12:18:29 +1000
kMDItemContentType = "public.tiff"
kMDItemContentTypeTree = (
"public.tiff",
"public.image",
"public.data",
"public.item",
"public.content"
)
kMDItemDisplayName = "20080612021250.tif"
kMDItemFSContentChangeDate = 2008-06-12 12:18:29 +1000
kMDItemFSCreationDate = 2008-06-12 12:18:29 +1000
kMDItemFSCreatorCode = ""
kMDItemFSFinderFlags = 0
kMDItemFSHasCustomIcon = 0
kMDItemFSInvisible = 0
kMDItemFSIsExtensionHidden = 0
kMDItemFSIsStationery = 0
kMDItemFSLabel = 0
kMDItemFSName = "20080612021250.tif"
kMDItemFSNodeCount = 0
kMDItemFSOwnerGroupID = 20
kMDItemFSOwnerUserID = 501
kMDItemFSSize = 35272
kMDItemFSTypeCode = ""
kMDItemHasAlphaChannel = 0
kMDItemKind = "TIFF image"
kMDItemLastUsedDate = 2009-06-16 11:13:33 +1000
kMDItemOrientation = 1
kMDItemPixelHeight = 2335
kMDItemPixelWidth = 1651
kMDItemResolutionHeightDPI = 200
kMDItemResolutionWidthDPI = 200
kMDItemUsedDates = (
2008-06-12 00:00:00 +1000,
2008-09-09 00:00:00 +1000,
2009-02-26 00:00:00 +1100,
2009-06-16 00:00:00 +1000


I have bolded the section of the file that shows the incorrect date. The interesting thing to note about this date, is that while the metadata list shows the year as 1970, the Finder view shows the year as 1904. Anyway, this is the cause of your symptom.

What I believe Canon needs to check is how this creation date is being set in the metadata. I have assumed it is the Canon that sends this tag with the scanned file, however there could be something else that is sent with the scanned file, or contained within the header of the scanned file, that contains this date (or more so doesn't contain this date), and it is up to the Mac to set this data for the file for its own internal indexing.

The more I think about it the latter seems more likely, in that the same Canon iR sending to 10.4.11 does show the correct creation date. So Canon may not be able to resolve this, but they may be able to tell you what data the Canon sends and how 10.5 interprets the information.

Good luck.

PaHu

I will need to check the Mailbox User Guide but I believe what you are experiencing could be a limitation of the mailbox function. I will check this when I get back to work on Monday.

Pahu

Following is the restrictions of using the Mailbox function of the Color imageRUNNER.

*Scan to Mailbox:* This method should be selected when the application calls for document/image storage, and scanned documents are not intended for use outside the local workgroup. Files from multiple Mailboxes may be merged and printed in this mode.

*Send to Mailbox:* This method should be selected when the application calls for sending a file outside the local workgroup as an E-mail attachment, to upload files to a database or server, or a fax transmission. In this mode, the Colour iR generates three types of file formats simultaneously: A Canon proprietary compression format storing a file in a Mailbox; Raster JPEG for sending files to servers, databases, and E-mail destinations and TIFF (MMR) for sending the scanned document as a fax or I-fax. Files from multiple Mailboxes may be merged and printed in this mode.

*Print to Mail Box:* This method should be selected when the user is sending an electronic document from a connected PC. This mode will save the document in a file format that allows for storage and printing at the Colour iR, but will not allow users to send the file to other locations. Files from multiple Mailboxes may be merged and printed in this mode.

So, to summarize, if you want to Send documents from the Mailbox, you have to Send to Mailbox rather than Scan to Mailbox.

Pahu

.. Sorry for stealing your thread, but PAHU: Seems like you're using the Canon iRC3200 - any idea with driver for Snow Leopard 10.6? 🙂