Using my external midi instrument, Yamaha PSR-540 as a sound module

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Using my external midi instrument, Yamaha PSR-540 as a sound module

I use Logic Studio/Logic Pro 8.0.2. I have figured out how to record rhythms from my Yamaha PSR-540 keyboard as midi onto my arrange window as I couldn't find a similar loop within Logic. Due to my keyboard's timing being different to Logic I have now figured out how to get Logic to trigger my keyboard as a sound module/source also; however, Logic is only seeing a random selection of 128 of the 707 XG/GM sounds on my keyboard and not the sound I need (which is an XG [Expanded General Midi] sound = Rock Toms). These 128 sounds are listed via the Environment window, clicking box 1 on the multi-track instrument object shown and then double-clicking on box 1. This window details two key things as well, Bank: (No Bank specified, Names of Bank 0 used) and Bank Message: (Control 32). I've tried altering these in the hope Logic brings up a different listing of my keyboard's sounds but to no luck. Please help if you can. Thank you very much.

Power Mac G4, Mac OS X (10.4.11), Dual 1.42 GHz PowerPC G4

Posted on Jun 20, 2009 7:26 AM

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Answer 1

Caramby

Level 4

1,523 points

Jun 20, 2009 7:33 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

It seems likely that Logic is simply showing you a complete list of GM sounds. GM is universal across all MIDI devices, so the same sounds have the same names everywhere.

However, the sound you are looking for is not GM but "Expanded GM" which is not part of the original GM set.

IOW, you are not looking at what is on your external keyboard at all; just at the GM sounds that Logic (as a GM compliant device) has inside itself.

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Answer 2

Caramby

Level 4

1,523 points

Jun 20, 2009 7:38 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

Part 2: in order to see the sounds on your external keyboard, you will have to fetch them. Conventionally, this is done in +Applications > Utilities > Audio MIDI Setup+ by looking at your connected devices in the MIDI tab & examining the options.

Not all devices can supply patch names unaided; you might need a Patch Librarian.

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Answer 3

Jun 20, 2009 10:06 AM in response to Caramby

Firstly, your prompt reply is much appreciated. Those random 128 sounds are actually all XG sounds out of the 707 XG/GM sounds on my keyboard. You're probably right that in regard to the listed sound names are default and not a view of my keyboard's. I've gone into my Midi set-up where you said to look but can't see anything on there to help - it only displays options of channels to transmit and receive midi with which right now all 16 channels are selected. The port is the only one to use as nothing is audible on the other ports. Even if I had the sounds available without the 'patch names' that would be the most important thing but it's locating these other sounds I can't find. Is it possible my keyboard is partially compatible with Logic and something like other 'drivers' downloaded onto my computer could fix? Yamaha and Logic technical support have been no help so far, everything I've managed to progress on this so far has been done on my own so thanks for looking into this for me.

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Answer 4

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 20, 2009 10:19 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

Assuming you can access those sounds via MIDI patch changes (it isn't always the case on some of these "GM-but-we-insist-on-trying-to-make-it-better" keyboards), the main difficult is working out what the bank format and patch format is.

Is this stuf documented in your keyboard's manual?

Once you have the docs, then it's usually a fairly straightforward matter of creating custom bank change messages in Logic to handle it. There is a number of Yamaha XG bank formats (amongst others) already directly supported in Logic, so try those first, along with the standard bank change formats to see if it gets you close.

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Answer 5

Jun 20, 2009 11:08 AM in response to Bee Jay

Thank you. My Yamaha PSR-540 manual does not contain such information unfortunately. You said there are other Yamaha XG Bank formats supported in Logic, in regards to this and the fact I'm just not finding the right banks/patches, where can I find them if custom-made? I've spent all day on this and still no luck. Please specify step by step how to achieve making such changes in order for Logic to locate my keyboards sounds. 215 of the sounds are GM, 480 are XG, plus 12 drum kits. The drum kits, those 215 GM sounds and 352 of the XG sounds are not being located. Strange, isn't it and very annoying.

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Answer 6

Bee Jay

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 20, 2009 11:16 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

Bank change formats are all defined as part of a multi-instrument, which is how your keyboard should be set up.

Read the manual on this stuff, from about page 885-886 to 888 - it talks about bank formats and defining custom bank select messages.

If you haven't configured your keyboard in Logic, or don't know how to, then that's a different question... 😉

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Answer 7

Pancenter

Level 6

14,782 points

Jun 20, 2009 11:42 AM in response to Bee Jay

I think one of Logic's pre-defined bank changes works with the XG-synths.
Getting all of the names in there (at the correct locations) is a different story

External patch names is a weak point of Logic and will probably never be addressed as things are heading in the opposite direction, at least the way Apple sees it.

You can get the XG synth specs v1.26 at the bottom of this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XG_(midi)

pancenter-

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Answer 8

Jun 21, 2009 4:42 AM in response to Pancenter

Thanks. I checked out those XG synth specs v1.26 and I looked at Logic's manual page 887 etc. I then looked at my keyboard's manual again and although it didn't tell me much, I think I'm after LSB rather than MSB. By now having these two other places to look it allows me to make many variations; however, I don't really know how to really connect the dots between those synth specs v1.26 and making the appropriate changes in the Define Custom Bank Messages and Multi Instrument Windows. Bit over my head and have been trying for about 10 hours since. Is it possible to get my hands on an environment with all the correct presets for such a problem?

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Answer 9

Caramby

Level 4

1,523 points

Jun 21, 2009 5:00 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

Have you tried searching for +"xg environment"?+

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Answer 10

Pancenter

Level 6

14,782 points

Jun 21, 2009 5:11 AM in response to Antidisestablishmentistarism

Antidisestablishmentistarism wrote:
Thanks. I checked out those XG synth specs v1.26 and I looked at Logic's manual page 887 etc. I then looked at my keyboard's manual again and although it didn't tell me much, I think I'm after LSB rather than MSB. By now having these two other places to look it allows me to make many variations; however, I don't really know how to really connect the dots between those synth specs v1.26 and making the appropriate changes in the Define Custom Bank Messages and Multi Instrument Windows. Bit over my head and have been trying for about 10 hours since. Is it possible to get my hands on an environment with all the correct presets for such a problem?

A site that's been around for ages.

http://www.swiftkick.com/

Under downloads Logic Environments/Logic Users Group/Synth Editors

It's been a long time since I looked at any of these, they're from older versions of Logic but probably can be imported by layer.

pancenter-

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Answer 11

Jun 21, 2009 7:44 AM in response to Pancenter

Thanks. Tried those SwiftKick downloads but they wouldn't open/import in Logic Studio or my old Logic Pro 6. Good try though! I've looked for an XG Environment and can't find one; however, I got in touch with the SFLogicNinja guy who should send me something today I hope will handle this prob. In case this doesn't work I'm up for any other suggestions.

Best, Anton

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