Can Time Machine work with LaCie NAS?

Brian Smale wrote:
Hi Pondini,

On the speed issue, my Mac is connected to the Airport Extreme through a hard-wired Ethernet, not via wireless, so the speed might be better than you think.

Ah, yes, in that case it will be faster, but I suspect still considerably slower than FireWire (I've not tested it, but several posts here indicate that).

The backup times seem to vary quite a lot. Most are in the 30 sec class. This one took 39s:

+Starting standard backup+
+Backing up to: /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 296.6 MB requested (including padding), 373.54 GB available+
+Copied 1809 files (9.8 MB) from volume Primary HD .+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 284.9 MB requested (including padding), 373.53 GB available+
+Copied 141 files (216 bytes) from volume Primary HD .+
+Starting post-backup thinning+
+Deleted backup /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb/Brian Smale’s Computer/2009-07-06-194217: 373.53 GB now available+
+Post-back up thinning complete: 1 expired backups removed+
+Backup completed successfully.+

Some are very short, this one taking 17s when I was not using the computer:

+Starting standard backup+
+Backing up to: /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 336.0 MB requested (including padding), 373.15 GB available+
+Copied 1684 files (42.3 MB) from volume Primary HD .+
+Starting post-backup thinning+
+Deleted backup /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb/Brian Smale’s Computer/2009-07-07-124231: 373.11 GB now available+
+Post-back up thinning complete: 1 expired backups removed+
+Backup completed successfully.+

A few take much longer, like this one this evening at 9m 47s:

S+tarting standard backup+
+Backing up to: /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 342.1 MB requested (including padding), 372.92 GB available+
+Copied 1759 files (47.2 MB) from volume Primary HD .+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 285.6 MB requested (including padding), 372.87 GB available+
+Copied 1850 files (164 KB) from volume Primary HD .+
+Starting post-backup thinning+
+Deleted backup /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb/Brian Smale’s Computer/2009-07-07-204231: 372.88 GB now available+
+Post-back up thinning complete: 1 expired backups removed+
+Backup completed successfully.+

I saw this one happen, and it was mostly preparation time. It could be that I had been playing with adding and deleting drives to the drive list and this caused it to do a full backup. I have 75 backup files which take 93GB of disk space. Funny thing is, clicking on any one of them in Finder shows the size to be about 64GB. 75 x 64GB does not make 93GB, so that's puzzling.

I don't do any of the things you listed, in fact, apart from iPhoto files, my rate of data saves is very low. And now a brain reset: my Time machine backups go to a second internal disk in my Mac Pro. It's the old .Mac Backup files that go to the previously mentioned Firewire disk.

Given all the above and the fact that my Airport Extreme is connected via cabled Ethernet, I don't think I'll have a problem with undue slowness.

Brian S.

Brian Smale wrote:
. . .
A few take much longer, like this one this evening at 9m 47s:

+Starting standard backup+
+Backing up to: /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 342.1 MB requested (including padding), 372.92 GB available+
+Copied 1759 files (47.2 MB) from volume Primary HD .+
+No pre-backup thinning needed: 285.6 MB requested (including padding), 372.87 GB available+
+Copied 1850 files (164 KB) from volume Primary HD .+
+Starting post-backup thinning+
+Deleted backup /Volumes/Backup HD/Backups.backupdb/Brian Smale’s Computer/2009-07-07-204231: 372.88 GB now available+
+Post-back up thinning complete: 1 expired backups removed+
+Backup completed successfully.+

I saw this one happen, and it was mostly preparation time. It could be that I had been playing with adding and deleting drives to the drive list and this caused it to do a full backup.

No, that won't cause a full backup (and one would take far longer than that). It backed-up less than 50 mb, anyway. That's quite long for so little being backed-up. I'd suspect either a maxed-out CPU or some other process using the disk. Does it have anything besides TM backups on it?

You might want to exclude your TM disk/partition from any anti-virus scanning.
Also from Spotlight Indexing, via System Preferences > Spotlight > Privacy.

I have 75 backup files which take 93GB of disk space. Funny thing is, clicking on any one of them in Finder shows the size to be about 64GB. 75 x 64GB does not make 93GB, so that's puzzling.

Ah, that's the magic of TM, and the way it stores it's backups.
See this post: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9788413#9788413

I don't do any of the things you listed, in fact, apart from iPhoto files, my rate of data saves is very low. And now a brain reset: my Time machine backups go to a second internal disk in my Mac Pro.

All the more reason they should be much faster.

It's the old .Mac Backup files that go to the previously mentioned Firewire disk.

Using Backup to an external disk isn't a great idea. To get fairly small amounts of data off-site to iDisk, it's fine, and I use it for that myself. But I'd strongly recommend CarbonCopyCloner, SuperDuper!, or the like for this. Backup is terribly slow and inefficient, and a real pain to restore from.

Given all the above and the fact that my Airport Extreme is connected via cabled Ethernet, I don't think I'll have a problem with undue slowness.

Probably true. You won't know until you try it.

Pondini wrote:

No, that won't cause a full backup (and one would take far longer than that). It backed-up less than 50 mb, anyway. That's quite long for so little being backed-up. I'd suspect either a maxed-out CPU or some other process using the disk. Does it have anything besides TM backups on it?

Well, I did have a Finder file size calculation running on the internal backup disk when Time Machine kicked in, so maybe that was the problem. The disk is used purely for Time Machine backups (at present), but you can understand why I want a another backup somewhere else.

Using Backup to an external disk isn't a great idea. To get fairly small amounts of data off-site to iDisk, it's fine, and I use it for that myself. But I'd strongly recommend CarbonCopyCloner, SuperDuper!, or the like for this. Backup is terribly slow and inefficient, and a real pain to restore from.

I also use Backup to save essential files onto iDisk. I'm only keeping it running on the Firewire disk as a temporary second backup until I get the solution running that we've been discussing here. I'll then include other household computers in the process. I also intend to use SuperDuper to create a bootable drive to get up and running when the main disk falls over.

I think I'm good to go now. Again, many thanks.

Brian Smale

Brian Smale wrote:
. . .
Well, I did have a Finder file size calculation running on the internal backup disk when Time Machine kicked in, so maybe that was the problem.

No, the size discrepancy is because of the structure of the backups. Multiple backups of an item that hasn't changed refer to the same single copy of those items, so each one is counted when calculating the size of any one folder; when you add up multiple folders, you're actually counting the same item over and over.

This is how, in the TM interface, there appear to be multiple, separate backups of everything, when of course there aren't.

The disk is used purely for Time Machine backups (at present), but you can understand why I want a another backup somewhere else.

Yes, absolutely. I use CarbonCopyCloner myself, in addition to TM and Backup to iDisk. Many folks here use both TM and one of the "clones."

Using Backup to an external disk isn't a great idea. To get fairly small amounts of data off-site to iDisk, it's fine, and I use it for that myself. But I'd strongly recommend CarbonCopyCloner, SuperDuper!, or the like for this. Backup is terribly slow and inefficient, and a real pain to restore from.

I also use Backup to save essential files onto iDisk. I'm only keeping it running on the Firewire disk as a temporary second backup until I get the solution running that we've been discussing here. I'll then include other household computers in the process. I also intend to use SuperDuper to create a bootable drive to get up and running when the main disk falls over.

Ah, excellent. 🙂

Pondini wrote:

Brian Smale wrote:
. . .
Well, I did have a Finder file size calculation running on the internal backup disk when Time Machine kicked in, so maybe that was the problem.

No, the size discrepancy is because of the structure of the backups. Multiple backups of an item that hasn't changed refer to the same single copy of those items, so each one is counted when calculating the size of any one folder; when you add up multiple folders, you're actually counting the same item over and over.

I think you misunderstood. I was referring to the Finder file size calculation on the backup drive as the likely process that was slowing down the Time Machine backup, where it took 9m to save quite a small file.

BS.

Brian Smale wrote:

Pondini wrote:

Brian Smale wrote:
. . .
Well, I did have a Finder file size calculation running on the internal backup disk when Time Machine kicked in, so maybe that was the problem.

No, the size discrepancy is because of the structure of the backups. Multiple backups of an item that hasn't changed refer to the same single copy of those items, so each one is counted when calculating the size of any one folder; when you add up multiple folders, you're actually counting the same item over and over.

I think you misunderstood. I was referring to the Finder file size calculation on the backup drive as the likely process that was slowing down the Time Machine backup, where it took 9m to save quite a small file.

Ah, yes, I did indeed. 😟 I can see that making some difference, but not a lot.