Some NTFS formatted drives not mounting (even with Paragon NTFS)

posted this under the MacBook forum, but I think this is a more appropriate forum for the issue at hand.

This is a baffling one:

I have a couple different NTFS formatted drives. They mount under Windows (XP/Vista) but do not mount in OS X, even when I install the latest Paragon NTFS utility to allow read/write on NFTS drives.

Now, another twist to this is that I swap out two bare 2.5" NTFS drives into one Nexstar USB case (I'm deployed so I don't have easy access to a new USB case); one drive mounts fine under OS X (formatted with OS X Drive Utility), while the other straight out of an HP Windows laptop does not mount via the same Nexstar USB case but OS X Drive Utility can see it. This seems to negate a USB controller issue.

Another factory Maxtor USB drive that is used by my Windows friends also does not mount under OS X (but is seen by OS X Drive Utility). I'm hoping to clear off all contents of that drive and format it NFTS but using Drive Utility to see if that allows it to mount under OS X.

So at this time, I'm just flabbergasted at what the issue is since it appears its not a USB controller issue. I'm tending to think its the way the drive was formatted...

Anyone else experiencing, and hopefully, solved this problem?

TIA!

MP 2.8 Quad and MBP 2.33, Mac OS X (10.5.7)

Posted on Jul 10, 2009 12:34 AM

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13 replies

Jul 12, 2009 10:11 PM in response to Fortuny

I'm not sure the disks in question are dynamic disks as these drives are all accessible by portble computers, and one of the drives came out of a portable computer. According to the article you provided, it mentioned that dynamic drives are not usable by portable computers.

However, I do believe it's how the drives were formatted, and I'm not ruling dynamic disks out yet. Once I have a new drive shipped, I will transfer all the files and reformat (NTFS of course) and see if that makes the drives accessible via OS X.

Jul 15, 2009 9:50 AM in response to amgqmp1

I ran CHKDSK and although it found minor errors on the drives in question, it still did not solve the problem.

In addition, DISK UTILITY also shows errors on the drives, even after CHKDSK cleans any up. According to DISK UTILITY, these errors it encounters is what prevents the drives from mounting, even when I attempt to manually mount them via DISK UTILITY.

The search for the solution goes on, which has now taken even MORE importance as I was transferring files from one of the NTFS drives in question to an external Mac HFS drive (I have MacDrive installed on my Vista partition) under Vista and the power went out, cutting off the Mac HFS drive. Now the entire contents of that Mac drive are inaccessible. DISK UTILITY was unable to repair it. DiskWarrior can finds ZERO files when it rebuilds a new map.

Other Marines here experienced totally corrupted Vista OS's when they were performing either updates are even just booting up their computers when the power went out. Both cases they had to have a clean install of Vista to get their computers back running.

With those experiences and now my own, I realize it is extremely DANGEROUS to do any file transfers under Vista and there is now renewed urgency to be able to do all of my file movements from NTFS drives under Mac OS X.

Jul 15, 2009 10:33 AM in response to Ken Auggie

This may sound harsh, but running a Mac Pro w a UPS is excellent insurance. Especially in environments where power can be iffy - whether mid-West Iowa or Mid-East or NYC.

NTFS allows write support, but my experience was that while it seemed okay to repair with Disk Utility, it isn't supported (and DW won't, unless Paragon and Alsoft has tested and certified).

Never had a good feeling in my gut about MacDrive.

I've had better performance, stability, file transfers, with Windows 7 Release Candidate than Vista.

When you run a scheduled scan to check a disk in Vista, I'd be sure to attempt to repair bad blocks too. Does a good job. Only thing that does a better job is to use the disk drive vendor's own Windows disk utility, such as WD Diagnostic.

Not all WD cases work well with Macs which is why they have a line of Mac compatible units.

I would of course be using Paragon Partition Manager 10, does an excellent job backing up and cloning etc.

Jul 16, 2009 9:48 AM in response to Ken Auggie

Ken Auggie wrote:
I ran CHKDSK and although it found minor errors on the drives in question, it still did not solve the problem..

The search for the solution goes on, which has now taken even MORE importance as I was transferring files from one of the NTFS drives in question to an external Mac HFS drive (I have MacDrive installed on my Vista partition) under Vista and the power went out, cutting off the Mac HFS drive. Now the entire contents of that Mac drive are inaccessible. DISK UTILITY was unable to repair it. DiskWarrior can finds ZERO files when it rebuilds a new map.

Other Marines here experienced totally corrupted Vista OS's when they were performing either updates are even just booting up their computers when the power went out. Both cases they had to have a clean install of Vista to get their computers back running.

With those experiences and now my own, I realize it is extremely DANGEROUS to do any file transfers under Vista and there is now renewed urgency to be able to do all of my file movements from NTFS drives under Mac OS X.


Disclaimer: I work for the people that make MacDrive. We happen to be located in mid-west Iowa...

Did you run CHKDSK /F to fix the problems it found? I probably should have mentioned that in my first post. Running CHKDSK without the /F flag will just analyze the disk, but it does not perform any repairs.

As you've indicated, Vista can suffer from tremendous problems (as will Windows 7) if the disks are configured with write-behind support (which is the default for fixed disks). Your comrades had their Windows OS volume damaged by a power outage. What's command and relevant are the write-behind cache policy settings in Windows...not the type of file system the disk uses, nor the software (e.g. MacDrive) you're using to access it.

Go to Device Manager in Windows Vista and look in the "Disk drives" category. Open the properties window on the drive that Windows Vista is installed on. Next, go to the "Policies" tab. I strongly recommend you switch any hard drive you're using with Vista to "Optimize for quick removal". Please read the portions in the "Optimize for performance" section and make note of their references to data loss or corruption caused by power loss.

Hopefully, this will help you out in the future regardless of your decision to purchase a UPS (which is also very good advice). While I'm not sure how/why it's relevant, I have experienced the occasional power glitch here in mid-west Iowa...and the computer I'm typing this on is using a UPS. 🙂

Jul 19, 2009 11:34 PM in response to amgqmp1

To all, I'm using a MacBook Pro out here, and all my other Marines are using assorted flavors of laptops running Vista. UPS's are not readily available here in the combat zone we are located.

Now, you may say if we are all using laptops they should have gone straight to battery when the power went out without skipping a beat and having the problems we are experiencng.

Well, for the Marine getting updates to Vista, when power went out, it cut-off the internet connection which evidently corrupted the Vista update download AND somehow the existing Vista OS, so I don't think this had anything to do with write-behind enabled.

The other Marine was unpacking a brand new laptop so the battery wasn't charged. He powered it on, it began the boot process then the power went out (as you see, power outtages are a very common thing here) mid-boot. Somehow that caused his Vista OS to get completely hosed and he had to find someone with a Vista install DVD (his Tiger Direct el cheapo laptop did NOT come with any restoration CDs whatsoever). If this was indeed a write-behind issue, there was absolutely no way he could have prevented it as this was the very first time he turned on that brand new computer so he never got the chance to disable write-behind.

And finally in my instance, the Mac-formatted external drive was running on an external power source, so when the power went out it shut down that drive (my laptop and the USB-powered NTFS drive were still operational). Disabling write-behind may have preserved the HFS drive when the power cut out.

Jul 19, 2009 11:52 PM in response to amgqmp1

Yes, I ran CHKDSK /f (to auto fix any errors encountered). I ran it multiple times just to be safe on all the NTFS drives in question. Did not solve the problem.

So I did an experiment and completey offloaded the contents of one of the NTFS drive, a Maxtor OneTouch 4 USB drive. I then booted in OS X and used Drive Utility to reformat the drive. HFS and FAT32 both were recognized and mounted fine in OS X, but when formatted as NTFS, OS X failed to mount it and Drive Utility always reported errors, even after a fresh format!

I was completely stumped. For this particular external drive system, perhaps there is some USB controller issue that prevents NTFS formats on this drive from being properly recognized by OS X. The case doesn't seem to be easily disassembled to remove the physical drive and install in a different case/controller (and besides, it's not my drive and I don't want to inadvertently destroy it) so I couldn't take the controller out of the equation for testing purposes.

Jul 20, 2009 8:13 AM in response to Ken Auggie

When I switch drives between Mac and Windows, I use WD Diagnostic to zero the drive, initialize, and then format. Sometimes it takes a quick zero before I can do an extended test. And only then do I find and feel the drive is safe for use.

Things were much simplier 40 yrs ago, maybe a battery for your camera or radio was it. Seems like better for downloads to be done in stand alone mode to a 'safe' system (no UPS? none?) and then distribute updates. But also, there have been severe problems with flash drives getting infected, too, so those are an issue.

NTFS to me is more secure and safe than Mac HFS+ ever has been, and Windows 7 runs better and file copy is also much smoother (Vista was really slow, rough, and unreliable).

No way to put all the updates on DVDs and have one system image that would then be custom installed, no updates needed... 😟

Jul 22, 2009 10:30 AM in response to The hatter

Of course for my home Mac Pro I use a UPS, but out here in the desert combat zone in tents, UPS's are not only truly a luxury, but they are way too heavy to pack in our seabags and ILBE's to be mobile enough to move out on short notice.

As I said, we all use laptops with their own batteries, but its the external devices, whether it be externally powered USB drives or the commercial internet routers, that are susceptible to the power outages that in turn can disrupt the Vista computers horribly.

So far, everything I've done under OS X when the power goes out has so far NOT resulted in a completely unrecognizable hard drive or OS. Which is why I want to do any file transfers under the auspices of OS X versus Vista.

Basically, we share music and movies to listen and watch to pass our free time whenever we can. But I'm not willing to lose important hard drive data nor my Vista OS just to copy movies.

Jul 22, 2009 10:53 AM in response to Ken Auggie

I was thinking it was some sort of base camp, maybe not the huge division size, but a place with power generators was all. NOT out in field, where having MP3 and video players. Let alone trying to do an update or patch.

Solid state drives today that require so little power your clothing and walking could generate enough -- maybe not today, but someday. Maybe a situation where once in a while solar power would make sense.

Atom-based lower power and more like Netbooks. And thin client.

Jul 23, 2009 12:57 PM in response to amgqmp1

I analyzed the Policies settings under Device Manager for all the drives I've used, both HFS and NTFS formatted, and here is what I discovered:

1) The VISTA boot partition is set for Performance but I can NOT change it to Quick Removal (it's grayed out). I'm not sure if this is because it's the booted OS and Vista will not allow the Quick Removal setting, or if this is specific to my installation (Mac hardware/partitioned drive/Vista Ultimate with SP1).

2) The HFS, externally powered drive is set to Quick Removal already, yet this did NOT prevent its directory structure from being completely garbled when it was being written to under Vista when the power went out. This tells me Write-Behind was NOT an issue, but a fundamental file writing flaw under Vista or MacDrive that is ALWAYS susceptible to directory corruption when the power goes out (I've had this drive directory hosed TWICE now under Vista when it has been unexpected disconnected either due to power outage or inadvertently disconnected from the computer prematurely).

3) All the NTFS drives were already set to Quick Removal also. I usually am copying files from an NTFS drive to an HFS drive so I haven't experienced a power outage nor premature drive disconnect when copying to an NTFS drive. I'm curious if I would experience a complete directory corruption when writing to an NTFS drive under Vista and something goes amiss as I had happened when writing to an HFS drive (I may test this scenario some day out of curiousity).

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Some NTFS formatted drives not mounting (even with Paragon NTFS)

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