My ears are ringing from blast of white noise from Logic 9

Thanks for your replies, guys.

Still very upset about this, and I'm not quite sure what to do... With prior experience as my guide, I'm pretty sure that if I were to tap my contact at Apple that I might be asked to submit files, but then (per their usual way of doing things) I'd never hear a peep back about confirming or denying the problem. Or what to do about it.

Through the grapevine of this thread we've been given a glimpse of Apple's awareness of the problem. And as comforting as it is to be fed these lil' crumbs of information (with thanks to the people who've taken time to report their contact with Apple) it's just not enough. If this were Toyota there'd be a recall or a warning issued. Heck, in Walmart they have notices plastered on the wall recalling toys and other products that might -- under the rarest instances -- cause injury or harm. But this cowardly policy of silence concerning this issue just adds insult to injury to professional musicians who, historically, have been appreciated for their entertainment value but otherwise have been made to enter the concert hall through the back alley.

I agree - it is galling that Apple refuse to acknowledge anything. The only thing which would make them sit up and take notice is the possibility of a lawsuit - although I don't expect anybody has the time or money or appetite for aggravation which would ensue. That is of course why other manufacturers go to great lengths to do product recalls etc. Apple prefer the wall of silence, hope it goes away approach. How customer friendly of them. Not. Yet they like to think they are 'cool' Californians. I don't see what is 'cool' about ignoring serious problems with your customers.

Follow-up to the Compressor-based noise blast problem. Here's the digest version:

• Called Apple last week to follow up. Spoke to a tech. Told him about the issue. He told me that it's not a known problem. Wondered to myself why my call of Sept. 9th didn't count.

• Tech asked me which version of Final Cut Pro I had. I puzzled over what FCP would have to do with a Compressor problem, and it came out in the wash that he wasn't aware that Compressor was bundled with Logic.

• He said that because my software was past the free support sell-by date that it would cost me $199 to discuss the problem and get a "Case ID". I asked him if he thought it was strange that a customer would be asked to pay $199 to discuss a bug. He agreed. We then proceeded with a "free" conversation.

• He looked me up in his system and apparently there were no details about this issue logged from my first call. I guess that explains why 2 - 3 weeks after the fact I call about the exact same problem and am told that it's not a known issue.

• He asked how I was using Compressor. I explained that I'm using the fade-in and fade-out filters on audio and video tracks of QT movies to create promotional video clips for my website. He asked where I got the movies. I said they were movies I scored. "Yeah, but where did you get the movies?" Sigh...

• I was told that my workflow is wrong and that it's a recipe for disaster -- that I should never try to fade audio and video simultaneously; instead, I should use Compressor to do the video fades and Logic to do the audio fades. I told him that it's not a problem doing both simultaneously in Compressor as long as I avoid the Apple Lossless codec. Still, he insisted that it's recipe for disaster.

• Continued advice about how to improve my workflow. I brought the subject back OT saying that the purpose of my call wasn't to discuss workarounds but to bring the problem to Apple's attention. But no, he insisted that my workflow was wrong.

Well, you get the idea... the rest of the conversation went nowhere. Gotta say that the tech was VERY nice and we had a very amicable conversation. But... he... just... didn't... get it.

Towards the end of our conversation I asked him if he was going to log the problem as a known issue. He said no, that I'd have to open a Case ID, and that he couldn't because of the, you know, $199 thing. He said that he spent all that time with me on the phone because he took me on as a "special case". Yeah, I'm "special" alright... (LOL). But now that I think about it, the last time I had an Apple tech say those same words to me (many years ago, discussing a Logic problem) I believe he got fired not long afterwards.

Wonderfully sad...

Perhaps somebody should get together donations for a booth at the next NAMM show? A "Logic Demo" booth, featuring regular, unpredictable, and LOUD blasts of white noise.

That might attract enough attention for Apple to, at the VERY LEAST, upgrade this to a "KNOWN ISSUE".


!!!!!!

How pathetic. So apple refuse to take user's complaints seriously and always think they know better than stupid customers who use the 'wrong' workflow. You know, the people who use the program day in and day out in a professional environment - which is far more than the 'geniuses' at apple do.
So now you have to pay to get the problem registered as a known problem? Next time I take my car to the garage I will of course expect to pay them handsomely before they will agree I have a fault, which they might fix, but won't say when.

A few things i would like to throw out there.

1. Dont use WAV files. Reason: WAV is not a native Apple format so you can use them but if there is a problem that is there first thing i would eliminate and is an easy workaround...just use apple native codecs.

2. You are using PPC. This means all kinds of drivers are just different from the Intel versions. I am surprised apple supports that processor with new software. What happens is you reach a point where the software just isnt going to work on older platforms. Throw in aftermarket developed on new systems and it isnt worth the headache. For the simple fact that they are not developing with a system like that. But tbh, you can usually get by with the software you had.

3. Watch writing files to multiple drives that 'go to sleep'.

4. Open activity monitor while working and look for reaching limit on CPU or memory.

My own experience with the white noise blast was fixed with an update from a plugin i was using and that was the end of it for over a year.

Thanks for your input Jemmen.

1) I've always suspected WAV files were a problem. But despite my suspicions (and yours) it's really not possible to definitively point to the writing of WAV file data as the culprit. I wish it were that easy to pin down.

2) My using a PPC has nothing to do with it. Read through the thread and you'll see that people have this problem with up-to-date systems.

3) My drives never sleep, trust me (you should see my electric bills!)

4) Activity Monitor: while a good troubleshooting measure, I can't possibly keep my eye on what it's showing while I'm trying to be creative.

I think we have a situation here where everyone's got a different story to tell. But let's compare apples with apples. Your white noise problem having to do with a plugin is a vastly different situation from doing simple recording of live audio to disk.

Hi,

Your welcome. I am subscribed to this thread so i get the emails but unfortunately not an expert in audio applications programming.

In relation to the PPC: There can be issues though because nearly everything is different on that system from a hardware standpoint. Especially the mainboard. This is true even for windows but if it says "approved for" then that is different story. My advice is stick mainly to software from that generation especially when hardware changes come in to play. Sometimes thats not too much of an issue...but dont want to get off topic. Plus I dont know how apple develops programs but usually they may not or some companies not at all even test on older systems.

Recording live and playing back still use the same core audio system in the OS. I saw my waveform and heard it so i can say it was the white noise blast.

I have seen the waveforms and i know what my waveform looked like and i thik there is a relation to this issue and mine was just a software update because the developer needed to update after apple made a change. That is my guess.

You probably seen the gearslutz threads:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/417864-logic-9-snow-leopard-threa d.html

Message was edited by: Jemmen

Like I said, read through this thread and you'll see that this problem occurs even on the most up-to-date systems. If you take the data reported here as fact (and I can see no reason why not), you'll see that it occurs under Logic 8, Logic 9, Tiger, and Snow Leopard.

The problem also occurs when not using Logic, as I've elaborated on in my reports of noise blasts while using Compressor and also a 3rd party app called ScreenFlow.

I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, but at the end of the day no one knows what the cause of the problem is. Even getting a MacIntel and updating to the latest software offers no guarantees. That's the reality.

The other reality is that there has been no feedback or solution from Apple and that is at the heart of the matter. We can guess all we want about the cause but what we really need is feedback and a solution from the source.

Jemmen wrote:
I am surprised OS X 10.5 even supports PPC. The way you will remedy your situation is install from the original disks and take it from there.

OSX 10.5.xx supports PPC 100%.

You must be a programmer or IT because you haven't understood or bothered to read any of the replies. This doesn't just affect one person, it affects many and not all of them are using PPC, many are Intel users.

Why don't you read the thread, clean installs have been tried.

pancenter-

I do prefer Apple codecs for audio and imaging\video but i am just an end user. I admit i am not an Apple software expert as far as what works with what version or it programming and i am just offering suggestions. I have done very little low level programming, mostly administration and technical but that was on windows systems. Like i said, i am still very surprised apple even supports PPC but i cant say i would recommend using latest OS versions for PPC systems. You may run Windows Vista on an older system but even then its not a good idea and now with 64bit OS'...for that matter i have programs that wont even install on Windows OS' because the installer wont run.

"Why don't you read the thread, clean installs have been tried."

I read through much or all of it, dont remember. My only interest in the thread i, as i have said, it happened to me one time but a 3rd party plug-in program update solved it. Never said this was THE ultimate solution.

Just doing a clean install may not solve this issue. You need to do an incremental install with all your software and drivers with tests.

Just got the blast of white noise - luckily my Duet was set to headphone out and not my monitors! And I didn't have my headphones on!

Problem seems to be 100% repeatable on my system:

MacPro 8 core 2008
6GB Ram
Logic Pro 9.1.2 (in 64 bit mode)

Basically I updated to 9.1.2 this morning to try out the REX fix in 64 bit mode.
Clicked on a REX file in Logics browser and pressed the spacebar to preview it.
Got the following message: "Couldn't load the REX Shared Library because it is too old. Please update it then try again."

Clicked the Ok button and boom, the output from Logic overloads with white noise.
This happens on a brand new project i.e. loading the default empty project. Only one track of audio with no plugins.

So after the first blast I inserted a limiter on the output, turned the Duets output to zero & tried again. Blast of white noise everytime I get the REX error message.
My REX shared library was downloaded directly from the Propellerheads website last week - version 1.6

Not good....

I have to say that this is the only time I've encountered this problem - it's never happened to me while recording audio.

I work almost entirely in MIDI on a 2010 mac pro 14 gig ram logic 9.1.2 and regularly get ear-damagingly loud white noise. My 32-bit audio bridge is not very stable especially with PLAY engine so I suspect it has something to do with that as I dont believe it has happened when the 32bit audio bridge wasn't in use.

Having said that, I usually get white noise when I am doing actions during playback ie. changing faders or tempo.

i've got into a routine where i try to avoid monitoring at hi levels in cans, where i never instantiate a large 3rd party plug like alchemy or omnisphere while in play mode, and NEVER EVER select a new patch in omnisphere while running or even when just playing the keyboard...

(one look at the cpu spike which a new omnisphere patch causes is enough to explain many a white noise crash imo.)

What computer are you running and what audio interface?

If it is so dangerous to use Logic, why don't you stop? Why are people continuing to use a product that appears broken for audio production? If Apple won't fix this, people should vote with their feet and change.

If you can't move a fader when playing, what is the point? I mean, how come so many people are mixing fine with Logic, and then this person here can't even mix properly without risking his health? There is something seriously wrong when some people get it all the time and others don't. This is outrageous. Somebody should tell Apple to sort this out pronto!!!

Message was edited by: aadoyle