Interesting Hoefler Text Ligature Bug in SL

This topic has been very efficiently handled by Koenig (see elsewhere on this forum under Pages won't open....etc.). His suggestion works perfectly....

My husband talked with the tech who finally helped us. There is a way for you to get your hoefler text back because mine is now working, but I cannot help you... husband away hunting. However, I wanted you to know that yes, it can be done, but I do not know how. It upsets me greatly that Apple techs will not just set up an individual site for this particular problem, or what would it hurt them to just help a person when they call in? AND NOT charge $49.00 to help. After all, Apple created the problem with the text in the beginning. I continue to feel this is a scam on Apple's part to get a tech fee. My husband realized just before he left for hunting that he has the same problem on his computer now too, after the 10.6.2 install. So he will have to address the problem again. I'll have him write in what to do when he gets back, but hopefully, someone else will help you in the meantime. OR maybe you can call Apple and demand to get help, like I did. I don't like it when other people/businesses corner me into these feelings. They should be there to help when they create the problem.

Hello

I know that the Hoefler Text font delivered with 10.6.2 is more recent than the one delivered with 10.6 and 10.6.2 but, as I explained in several threads, we are making changes in my house so most of the time the macs are under protection against dust.
Only the G5 connected to the net is 'delivered' from time to time so I don't know if the 'new' font solve the known problem.

If it doesn't, goto to my idisk:
<http://idisk.me.com/koenigyvan-Public?view=web>
Download:
For_iWork:10.5 Fonts:Hoefler.zip

expand it,
You will get Hoefler Text.dfont
install it in:
Macintosh HD:Library:Fonts:
and trash
Macintosh HD:Library:Fonts:Hoefler Text.ttc

Restart the machine to really get rid of Hoefler Text.ttc.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 14 novembre 2009 17:56:58

Hoefler is the font that came with 10.6.2 I think. version is 6.1d7e1.
The Hoefler that came with 10.6 is version 6.1d6e1. 10.6.1 doesn't have any fonts

Thanks

Given the problems encountered with the new Hoefler, it seems that killing an oddity Apple Engineers introduced new ones.

At this time, using the one delivered with 10.5 seems to be the best soluce.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 15 novembre 2009 14:54:13

AND NOT charge $49.00 to help. After all, Apple created the problem with the text in the beginning. I continue to feel this is a scam on Apple's part to get a tech fee.

This is correct.

Henrik

What's the more efficient?
(1) wait that Apple deliver a version compatible with Pages under 10.6.x.
(2) replace the odd Hoefler Text.ttc by the 'old' Hoefler Text.dfont.

My own choice is to replace the new odd font by the 'old' one which behaves flawlessly.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 15 novembre 2009 21:29:49

Henrik Holmegaard wrote:

AND NOT charge $49.00 to help. After all, Apple created the problem with the text in the beginning. I continue to feel this is a scam on Apple's part to get a tech fee.

This is correct.

Henrik

Ditto.

Apple should be doing a lot more on this.

An awful lot of people must be wondering what went wrong. This is really bad quality control.

Peter

While some lost time ranting against Apple Service, I do my best to really help users.

As some of them had problems to download Hoefler Text.dfont from my iDisk, I sent it thru YouSendIt.
So, it's available during 7 days or 100 downloads from:

https://download.yousendit.com/ZW9DTG05dENKV1BIRGc9PQ

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 20 novembre 2009 19:06:06

While some lost time ranting against Apple Service

Who rants?

Apple has a history with Apple Hoefler. Among other things, the Apple type people redid Apple Hoefler for Apple Pages 1.0 by running the Hoefler smart shaping through Apple TrueEdit in such a way that typing the Latin small letter o and the mathematical operator slash set LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH SLASH, typing the Latin capital letter o and the mathematical operator slash set LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH SLASH, and more of the same for the poor people in Poland.

Henrik

Henrik Holmegaard wrote:

While some lost time ranting against Apple Service

Who rants?

Apple has a history with Apple Hoefler. Among other things, the Apple type people redid Apple Hoefler for Apple Pages 1.0 by running the Hoefler smart shaping through Apple TrueEdit in such a way that typing the Latin small letter o and the mathematical operator slash set LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH SLASH, typing the Latin capital letter o and the mathematical operator slash set LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH SLASH, and more of the same for the poor people in Poland.

Repeating that Apple delivered an Hoefler font with oddities doesn't help the end users, mainly those which where satisfied by the version delivered with 10.5.8 but can't open their documents in 10.6.x.

Your message will no help the OP.

Mine may give him the ability to continue to use Hoefler as he did under 10.5.8.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 21 novembre 2009 19:04:36

Bad quality control is bad quality control.

Especially unforgivable in a font (I have designed my own) as you can set up a visual matrix that almost immediately highlights problems.

Back when I ran Pre-Press R.I.P.s I came across several really unforgiveably poor examples.

A series of fonts which omitted the key @ glyph in certain weights of a family. It ruined several press runs of stationery and cost thousands of dollars to fix.

Even one Adobe font where the letter o vectors were duplicated in the glyph, causing postscript outlining, very hard to spot at small sizes. Effectively it just seemed to be invisible.

All avoidable if someone had only done their job.

We commend you Yvan on spotting the problem and offering a solution, but this does not mean that the cause of the problem should not be named.

Especially as the fix is arcane, requiring an old font fished off your website, whilst Apple has done nothing to fix it themselves.

Peter

Mine may give him the ability to continue to use Hoefler as he did under 10.5.8.

That's an argument, but that said it does not help determine what the problem in fact is. Look at it this way: you can tell a person asking for directions to take the next turn left on the assumption that the person knows the road regulations and knows the general geography, or you can accept that the person asking does not know the road regulations and does not know the general geography in which case there are no simple criteria with which to determine what is a correct answer.

In general, it is preferable if application services are clients of system services, if system services are in fact functional, and if the road regulations and general geography the should be followed in order to work with the functionality of the system level service(s) is common knowledge. The same as arguing for application-independent archiving over application-dependent archiving.

"Give a hungry man a fish, and he will be satisfied for a day. Teach a hungry man to fish, and he will be satisfied for a lifetime." From my point of view, the problem on this list is that you don't know enough about graphic information processing in general, Peter has his working experience from PostScript language level 1 with host-based separations and Type 1 composition, and Thomas has no concept of the necessity to view issues of area composition and issues of area separation in terms of a common architecture nor of the complexities of getting the sfnt and icc models working in ps and pdf. I don't have much time at the moment, but let's simply say that if your position is that knowing the interface of an application is enough, then we disagree. If PDF is "paper without the chase" and XPS is a "paper specification", then this kind of paper requires a concept of litteracy that is a long way away from the concept of litteracy that goes with desktop publishing where the page description perishes in the memory of the printer as the paper emerges.

Henrik

I know very well the fish aphorism. This is why, often, I give the reference to Users Guide which contain the responce to asked question.

Here, the problem is different.
An end user will not change the contents of a font file.
His problem is: how may I open and edit under Snow Leopard the document which I created in Tiger or Leopard using Hoefler Text font.

You may repeat thousands of time on this forum that repairing Hoefler Text.ttc is Apple's duty (sure it is), but it will not solve the user problem.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 22 novembre 2009 21:00:29