Phantom Subtitles

Question

Level 1

114 points

Phantom Subtitles

Has anyone else encountered this? You try to enter a new subtitle, using all the same techniques that have been working everywhere else, and suddenly instead of a nice bold yellow box in the timeline waiting for text and (if needed) buttons, you get a pale yellow box that is in the wrong place and sometimes overlaps surrounding subtitles. 'Apple Z' and 'delete' don't help, the only way to get rid of it is to wipe the subtitle track in the timeline and even then it is like getting gum off your shoe. When the machine is in this frame of mind the "Insert Subtitle at Playhead" function is disabled.
I THINK that this is the roadblock that is causing my "Internal Muxing Error" (see thread "Come back Win98-all is forgiven") and things are getting VERY DESPERATE INDEED SO PLEASE HELP!

Posted on Sep 20, 2005 8:56 PM

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Answer 1

Houghts

Level 4

1,749 points

Sep 20, 2005 11:16 PM in response to James Forbes

I had a similar problem a while back with a button-over-video in the subtitle stream. I assigned the graphic overlay I wanted to use which was fine, but the scale seemed wrong, so I rescaled and repositioned it in PS brought it back in, deleted the original overlay, assigned the new one and both of them appeared. After deleting the file from Assets, then all together off my HD I still had both images in the sub stream. I think in the end I deleted the whole track and started again, eventually getting it to work - but that is an extreme fix.
Hopefully someone else has some ideas - I didn't delete prefs and do a disc repair, maybe that's worth a go.
Cheers
B

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Answer 2

James Forbes Author

Level 1

114 points

Sep 21, 2005 9:59 AM in response to Houghts

Thanks B. That isn't quite the same scenario (scary one though!) There is nothing on screen with me: it is just in the subtitle track, but because there is this ghostly thing there (in the subtitle track) I can't put a real subtitle in. In this particular instance I could skip it, but the build knows that there is something wrong at that point and so aborts. Consequently I HAVE to fix it, and this is a very complicated track so deleting and starting over would be a VERY extreme solution.
Thanks
J

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Answer 3

Houghts

Level 4

1,749 points

Sep 21, 2005 5:31 PM in response to James Forbes

Have you tried creating a duplicate of the track and seeing if the problem exists in the duplicate?
Cheers
B

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Answer 4

James Forbes Author

Level 1

114 points

Sep 21, 2005 5:43 PM in response to Houghts

No, but when I reopened the file this morning it seemed to have fixed itself, so I will try that. I now realize that although the phantom subtitle thing is a problem and is infuriating when you run into it, it MAY not be the whole story here. When I tried to build today with all the subtitles present and correct I still ran into an Internal Muxing error. I am now going through each track of the project and trying a build of that alone to isolate the troublemakers. I am not sure how to proceed thereafter, but at least I will have narrowed the field a bit. That track has just proved itself to be a problem.

Have you ever run into this 42% encode issue? Using my "Watch the Activity Monitor" technique I have found that it takes 3-4 tries to get the big project to run, however when I break the project down into smaller components it usually starts off just fine. It is not that a big project takes longer, it is that the big project doesn't notice that DSPX_EncoderServer has finished whatever it has to do, and so never gets going at all if you aren't paying close attention.
Thanks for your input
J

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Answer 5

Houghts

Level 4

1,749 points

Sep 21, 2005 6:07 PM in response to James Forbes

Hey James
Firstly, I've had the Internal Muxer Error before caused by a corrupted chapter marker (or more accurately a marker placed on a GOP boundary that DVDSP doesn't like) - I just used trial and error to find the culprit, deleteing half the marker, building, if successful I'd go back to the other half and repeat the process until I found it. I ended up having to put a new marker at the next GOP boundary to get the project to build. Muxer errors could be any number of things though so time and patience are your greatest assets on this one.
Secondly, the 42% encode thing... I always encode outside DVDSP so I've never run into this problem. What you can do if you can't get around this one is to encode in Compressor or QT mpeg encoder (or any other app), then delete the video out of the timeline in DVDSP and replace it with the new mpeg. This way all of your links, chapters, endjumps, etc will remain intact.
Hope some of this helps
Cheers
B

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Answer 6

James Forbes Author

Level 1

114 points

Sep 21, 2005 6:21 PM in response to Houghts

"so time and patience are your greatest assets on this one." well yes B- if only I had a little of either! But many thanks for the suggestions which I will pursue.
Re the 42% deal: I know that you have said that you always encode outside of DVDSP, which I am trying to do too, however it appears that the DSPX_encoder just does this quick thing at the beginning of the build: it doesn't have time to encode anything, and it doesn't appear to do anything after its initial moment of glory. Next time you build a reasonably big project please watch the activity monitor for me: What happens for me is that DVDSP starts out using 90% of the CPU, then DSPX takes over at about 70% for maybe 15seconds, then DVDSP gets back in the saddle and away we go at 90% again. If the 42% deal is going to happen DVDSP doesn't notice that DSPX has finished and so sits using 10%CPU and saying that it is 42%encoded, when in fact nothing is happening at all. It seems to be just the luck of the draw as to whether this is going to happen, but it rarely if ever happens on a small build. I am sure that you are right about the wisdom of not encoding within DVDSP but I have a hunch that that is a seperate issue tp the one I am encountering.
best wishes
James

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Answer 7

thehand

Level 2

159 points

Sep 22, 2005 2:54 PM in response to James Forbes

muxing errors I believe have to do with an error in the track and GOP. GOPs don't care about audio track. They can be in sync or not or no audio. So the first thing I do when placing video clips in a track is making sure each clip end on a GOP boundary. I knew all the markers were correct. but that is what threw me off.

the way I figured this out was taking my original project and saving as another project, then stripping down it down to just the track because GOPs are in video clips. After numerous builds, building after placing each video clip, I found that the error was between two clips, 5 and 6, in this case.

I zoomed in all the way between these two and used the arrow and the option key to go back and forth in GOP increments. First I placed the playhead exactly between be using the up and down keys. Then using the option key, I went backward. Then I went forward (or tried to go forward again with the option key). But it wouldn't go anywhere. So I went to the inspector with the clip selected and clicked on downward arrow key and it took out several frames up to the current point of the playhead which was at this GOP boundary. the next clip (6) took up the space between the two.

I had a successful build afterwards

I didn't try cutting the beginning of clip 6 because I well the beginning is where they start building the GOPs.

So from now on I'm going to do a build immediately after adding all clips to the track before going on.

I don't think the program will allow placing clips out of bounds I tried and the program beeped and the marker was not placed.

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Answer 8

thehand

Level 2

159 points

Sep 22, 2005 3:04 PM in response to thehand

you may have noticed if you read between the lines that I didn't get the error until adding the next clip (clip 6). and that clipping the end of clip 5 solved the problem.

so how was it that I had a successful build after placing clip 5 in the track (the one I had to correct) and nothing to clip 6 (error after adding this clip).

I guess if the clip is the last clip, the program doesn't mind.

I probably will have to correct clip six after adding clip 7 ( the last clip). maybe not because I'm going to check the end of clip 6.

I'll be back

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Answer 9

thehand

Level 2

159 points

Sep 22, 2005 3:08 PM in response to thehand

clip 6 already ends on a GOP bounday. Since clip 7 is the last one I'm not worried about it.

Next comes the audio clips.

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Answer 10

James Forbes Author

Level 1

114 points

Sep 22, 2005 6:03 PM in response to thehand

Dear Hand
I am pretty sure that you have the solution, but I don't quite follow your instructions:

Using Control + Arrow moves between GOPs. Using this technique I may have found the troublespot.
But when you say "I went to the inspector with the clip selected and clicked on downward arrow key and it took out several frames up to the current point of the playhead" I am confused. Pressing the downward arrow key just jumps to the next asset irrespective of whether a clip is selected or not. Obviously I am missing something, but could you please enlighten me.
Many thanks
James

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Answer 11

James Forbes Author

Level 1

114 points

Sep 22, 2005 7:05 PM in response to James Forbes

OK now I am getting seriously confused!
I think I have found the troublespot: using TheHand's technique (Option-ArrowKey) I navigated through the GOPs towards the end of one clip. All is fine until I reach 09:27:14 after that point on the timeline if I click either arrow I end up in the middle of the next clip! (11:11:28 on the timeline).
So what next? Is this a remove and reapply the clip or a recreate the asset problem?

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Answer 12

thehand

Level 2

159 points

Sep 25, 2005 5:43 AM in response to James Forbes

make sure you are pressing option arrow not control arrow.
control (L/R) arrow moves playhead to next or next chapter.
apple (L/R) arrow moves to beginng or end of selected clip.

there are wells in the inspector for the current position of:
the start of the selected clip
clip start for cutting the beginning of the clip
duration

to the right of each of these wells are tiny up and down arrows. that should clear up your confusion. this is where you fix your clip. the duration is what you need to change in order to comply with GOP, for if you remember that I mentioned of two adjacent clips it is usually the end of the front clip that ends in an incomplete group of pictures. you will be applying the tiny down arrow of duration well with the said clip selected. if you used Compressor to produce your clips, the size of your GOP is 15 frames unless you knowingly changed this setting in your compressor GOP tab of your preset for you clips.

therefore pressing the down arrow of the duration well will cut off up to 14 frames of the end of your clip. and your next clip will take up the empty space.

after that if you use the option arrow to navigate back and forth thru this area, you will find that it wil go back and for between the next to last boundary of the front clip then to exactly between the two clips and to the end of the first GOP of the next clip.

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