Running hardware test in snow leopard

Poor choice of words on my part, but upgrade or over, whatever, are not erase or initialize, and have more liabilities.

To me, the only real way and safe, after backup, is to initialize.

For those that used Archive & Install, I also felt that was a poor method and just another variation on an upgrade methodology.

I do have the pdf "Apple Hardware Test Read Me" on my 2008 Macs. What I have just noticed about the one I'm looking at now (for the 2008 iMac & dated January 2008) is that the step-by-step instructions do not explicitly start with inserting the DVD in the drive. Step one just says "Restart your computer, holding down the “D” key while the computer restarts." Step 4 is "If your computer does not restart to Apple Hardware Test" & it says "Restart your computer with the Mac OS X installation DVD containing Apple Hardware Test. This should be the same DVD this document resides on. Hold down the “D” key while the computer restarts."

So I guess for some Macs made at about this time, AHT is resident (somewhere) on the HD. On all of mine, it is not, or at least none could start up into it even when "factory fresh."

Cornelius, I think the only problem with being ignorant is not knowing that you are. 🙂

Personally, I am well aware that I am ignorant about of a lot of things, which is why I find participating in Discussions so rewarding. I am always learning new things, both from what other users with more knowledge post & when trying to share what I know, since I often find little (or not so little) pockets of ignorance in my own understanding of something that sends me off on a search for more info about it.

AFAIK, TechTools that comes with AppleCare isn't the PRO version. Also, it doesn't do the stuff that AHT does. Also, I don't know if using the disks that came with the machine will restore AHT and the ability to launch it using the D key. If not, then just use the install disk, booting, holding down the D key.

R C-R:

Thanks. I used to think that I needed to know everything, and for a long time, when I was younger (or should I just say, when I was young), I felt I had to act as if I did know everything. I don't think I fooled anyone, not even myself. I find it easier, now, to just admit to the wide gaps in the information I do have, or more accurately, how little I know of what is to be known. I don't have to try to cover up, and I am open to new learnings without being defensive.

Socrates: Wisest is he who knows he knows not

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him.
He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student; teach him. (Sanskrit saying)

On topic. I finally shut down tonight and tried D-booting. Ended up booting normally. The HDD on my MBP has never been erased. So, apparently my Early 2008 MBP doesn't have that capacity.

😉 cornelius

califfo1975:

Thanks for your post, which allowed me to expose my ignorance and thus expose myself to learning about this capacity in some MacBook Pros. As I noted in my post previous to this, mine does not have that capacity.

I am nevertheless thinking of subscribing the apple care prot plan and I will have access to the techtoole deluxe that should be much stronger and efficient than the AHT.

I would not purchase Apple Care to get TechTool Deluxe. Get AppleCare for the protection it affords. TechTool Deluxe is not worth it. It does not do much more than Disk Utility and AHT will do for you. I use Tech Tool Pro and I think it is the best suite of tools available for the Mac. Many prefer Disk Warrior, which is very powerful, but does only directory repair and rebuilding. DriveGenius
is also a suite which does hardware and software work and, although I don't yet have it myself, have heard excellent reports of its effectiveness.

😉 cornelius

The hatter wrote:
Poor choice of words on my part, but upgrade or over, whatever, are not erase or initialize, and have more liabilities.

I don't agree that generally speaking, the new upgrade method has more liabilities than the supposedly 'cleaner' methods. Most users who opt for that don't really end up with a "clean" install anyway -- sure, they erase the volume, but then they migrate stuff from some backup somewhere, often including applications or user account files that may be "dirty" in some way. Some realize that migrating apps is potentially 'unclean' & avoid that but forget or don't know that user home folders can also contain such items in preference & application support files.

To me, the only real way and safe, after backup, is to initialize.

By initialize, I assume you mean doing a high level format of the drive to rewrite the partition scheme info as well as creating new volumes/partitions & their file system structures. (Users cannot do low level formatting of modern 'embedded servo' drives, even with vendor-supplied utilities.)

My feeling about this is it is like razing a building & erecting a new one because it might need a few repairs. Sure, there are a few problems severe enough to require "from the ground up" reformatting of the drive, but they are rare & you certainly would know you had them because your Mac would either not boot at all or display hard to miss problems like lots of beach balls, crashes, or even kernel panics.

If your drive can pass the "Verify Disk" check (which, by the way, the new installer does automatically for any volume chosen for the installation), the chances that you really need to reformat the drive are essentially zero.

upgrade or over, whatever, are not erase or initialize, and have more liabilities.

I hesitate to enter this debate as I do not feel I have the technical qualifications. However, I can say that since my initial installation of Jaguar, through to Tiger I have never done a "clean" install, meaning reformat, erase and install from disk. I have, indeed, prepped new HDDs which I installed by formatting and erase (no zeroing), but then cloned back from previous installations. Jaguar was installed on the same volume with OS 9, and Panther and Tiger were upgrades. My MBP came with Leopard installed and I migrated my stuff over from the installation on my Pismo running Tiger using Kappy's tutorial. I am not sure of what the "liabilities" are, but my installations are relatively stable. I do run TTP from time to time, and have had directory issues, which were easily repaired.

The corollary of the "clean" install theory is that such installs should be relatively trouble-free directory-wise and more so that using the upgrade or A&I options. I don't know if there is anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that, but my uneducated guess is that it does not make much difference. If there is any technical basis or data based evidence for the assumption I'd be interested as I'd like to learn more about it.

😉 cornelius