Level 1

112 points

Pages resolution, dpi, RGB, CMYK

I've been doing some ebooks etc. with Pages, getting lovely results. I started to use it instead of Photoshop or Illustrator\InDesign to make CD and DVD covers. But with different replicators, different requirements... some are now printing in RGB, some in CMYK (a problem with Pages I'm thinking).

Has anyone tried to use Pages as a replacement for the Adobe apps? I'm trying to figure out what the actual resolution is, and if there is some way to export a PDF that will be printer friendly across the board. (I know this is probably fantasying, but if one doesn't ask...)

I've noticed that exporting as a PDF gives a good PDF if opened by any Mac app., but Adobe was opening it in CMYK and there were weird things happening, black bars appearing, odd things.

Any suggestions about how to use Pages to do graphics (mainly DVD or CD covers) that a traditional printer won't sneer at, I'm all ears ...

Ben

MacBook Pro 2.16 Intel Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Jan 9, 2010 8:23 AM

50 replies

fruhulda

Level 6

15,167 points

Jan 25, 2010 12:45 PM in response to Ben Low

I am glad you think it looks better on the screen. I hope it does at the printer too.

I don't know much about your CMYK question but I will follow this thread and others to learn more.

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 25, 2010 1:00 PM in response to fruhulda

I zoom in to 1600 % and it's still sharp as a razor ... which would lead me to believe it will be alright at the printers ...

The only question will be the 'layers' available (or not) to the printer in the actual PDF. I don't know much about this process. It's quite a labyrinth.

Thanks mucho for your help...

Ben

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 25, 2010 1:01 PM in response to Jerrold Green1

Thank you Jerrold,

Much appreciated. I just love the single click answers.

Ben

Jan 25, 2010 7:59 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Yvan

Well there is a missing step in the instructions, but even having that will still lead to screwed up output in most cases unless you strictly limit your design to what Pages can safely do, and then carefully check every single object to make sure a bad setting has not slipped through.

Peter

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 25, 2010 8:12 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Hi Peter,

How does one check the 'objects' to make sure a bad setting hasn't slipped through?

And I'm not sure what you mean by 'what Pages can safely do'.?

It seems to produce a decent PDF from the 'print' mode, except that the drop shadows are low resolution. As far as I can tell the text looks like it is vector - I zoom and zoom in, and it stays razor sharp.

The work around with the Color Sync app seems to give me the higher resolution drop shadows, though the text is now rasterized it would appear -- but at 600 dpi, this doesn't look like a problem.

I'm trying to figure out where the problem will appear at the printers? (I suspect this is where the 'objects that need to be checked' comes in.

Ben

Jan 25, 2010 8:29 PM in response to Ben Low

Ben

You can check the compliance of the Pages' .pdf output with Acrobat Pro amongst other software.

I would not consider 600dpi to be adequate resolution for text or linework going to offset or digital output, and certainly not if there is uncertainty as to whether some work is RGB and other is CMYK.

There are still no bleeds, crop marks, slugs, or spreads.

Pages is a might purdy with all that lipstick, but no matter how you dress it up it is still a DTP pig, until Apple does something about it.

Peter

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 25, 2010 8:53 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Ben

"You can check the compliance of the Pages' .pdf output with Acrobat Pro amongst other software."

Thank you, will do.

"I would not consider 600dpi to be adequate resolution for text or linework going to offset or digital output, and certainly not if there is uncertainty as to whether some work is RGB and other is CMYK."

It appears as if I can adjust the dpi either way in Color Sync; I made a version at 1200 dpi. It looked just fine ... though the drop shadows suddenly appeared a tad darker for some reason. I could set it at any dpi it seems ... I have no idea what dpi is coming out of Pages, or even how to find out.

"There are still no bleeds, crop marks, slugs, or spreads."

I've created a template that has the bleeds and crop marks - I'm not sure what 'slugs' or 'spreads' are (I'm a filmmaker who has eschewed big studio production in favor of more modest efforts, which would appear to include learning how to do my own graphics.)

"Pages is a might purdy with all that lipstick, but no matter how you dress it up it is still a DTP pig, until Apple does something about it."

I use Final Cut and Logic, which are extremely sophisticated apps ... and am hoping Apple will move in that direction with Pages (as it is often wont to do).

Ben

Jan 25, 2010 9:03 PM in response to Ben Low

You do not want to render everything out to high resolution, which will create huge files with some blurry details. Vector and text should stay as they are. Only bitmaps should be 300dpi.

I suspect Apple has made some unholy alliance with Adobe not to cross swords in existing DTP areas already owned by Adobe.

Apple bought into/forged new categories with Final Cut, Logic and Aperture.

Pages is a hairsbreadth away from being at least an acceptable DTP solution. It is a political decision by Apple whether to take it over the line from purely amateur into low end professional.

Peter

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 25, 2010 9:19 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Thank you for your help Peter, it's much appreciated.

I'm going to do some more experimenting ... but with the printers. I've used Photoshop these last several years, struggling to get something that I consider approximates what I see every day in the video rental stores.

I suspect I'm going to have to bite the bullet and spend more time with Illustrator & make friends with an old school printer who is into digital, cover my bases.

I used Photoshop (with which I'm pretty familiar) to remake a DVD cover I'd originally done in Pages. With all my best efforts it took me about 4 times longer to do exactly the same job. Not that time is my top priority normally. I like craft. But at the end of a production my modest salary is suddenly getting smaller and smaller the more time I have to spend on the details of packaging.

All the best ...

Ben

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 29, 2010 2:43 PM in response to Ben Low

The Color Sync didn't quite work out in the end. The text gets rasterized and breaks up, unless you go up to 1200 ppi. And then the shadows for some reason get darker.

Here is a work-around that seems to work.

Pages 'print' to PDF. Looks great in Preview. Opens as a CMYK in Adobe \ Reader \ Acrobat. Which is fine if that is what is needed. I wanted an RGB.

Bring that PDF into Adobe Pro 9.

Acrobat Pro 9, go to Advanced > Print Production > Convert Colors > Output Intent and choose sRGB. And I get a lovely print, vector text and full resolution images.

Jan 29, 2010 7:30 PM in response to Ben Low

sRGB is for screen use.

The ColorSync filters are probably the same ones used by print to PDF, unless you went out of your way to create another.

The filters supplied all rasterise transparency to 72dpi.

Peter

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 30, 2010 11:50 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

Hi Peter,

Thank you for that. I'm learning. If I do a print to PDF from Pages I seem to get a nice clean PDF that I can zoom in on 1600%, and still see everything sharp, even the drop-shadows are clean.

My confusion. If it is 72 dpi, I should be seeing artefacting and breakup as I zoom in, no? I don't see how using this PDF (which is sharp as a razor as much as I zoom in) will become a lower resolution when going through the print process?

Another thing I don't understand, is why it opens as a CMYK in Adobe, when the original is RGB.

Jan 30, 2010 11:56 AM in response to Ben Low

Ben

Depends how the transparencies overlay and interact.

I'll put money on the shadows being still 72dpi.

It is the .pdf filter that sets the resolution not the print process.

Adobe what? They do make a few products. Illustrator? In which case it may be converted on opening, it usually will pop up a dialogue saying what is happening unless you have turned that off.

Send me the file and I'll look at it.

Peter

Ben Low Author

Level 1

112 points

Jan 30, 2010 2:15 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Adobe Reader turns it into a CMYK, but the resolution of everything seems to be okay -- in the sense that I can zoom in 2000% and everything, including the drop-shadows, are sharp as a razor.

Same thing happens with Adobe Acrobat Pro (ver. 7).

When I bring it into Illustrator, the text stays sharp as a razor, also the images; but the drop-shadows and Apple's 'reflections' become seriously pixelated (which would suggest the 72 dpi thing).

Jan 30, 2010 2:26 PM in response to Ben Low

Ben

Acrobat Reader will not turn the .pdf files into a color mode other than what they were created in and Pages can actually have mixed modes in its output.

Start overlapping transparent text with bitmap objects and see what happens. You need to do a lot more thorough testing and use Acrobat Pro Pre-Flight on your files to get a clear handle on all the problems.

Peter

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Pages resolution, dpi, RGB, CMYK