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milliGauss readings? Electromagnetic Emissions

Has anybody compiled any milliGauss emissions (chart) anywhere for either the desktop or portable Macs down through the years?

I'm coming up empty, except for some stuff Charles Moore published in 2008 with specifics to iPhones.

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Feb 8, 2010 4:01 PM

Reply
65 replies

Feb 21, 2010 2:46 PM in response to pritchet1

Peer review is far from a perfect solution to all ills , pritchet, but it does set a valuable minimum standard for the assessment of research, especially in an area like this where there are a lot of high horses being ridden by both sides of the debate!

Sure there are other factors beyond whether something has undergone peer review that are important. That's why you also need to take into account the funding source of research and any connections of the researcher, the publication in which it appears, etc etc etc.

But without an adequate review system scientific endeavour would simply collapse into a mush of wishful thinking, hypothesis mascarading as fact and the like. This doesn't mean that you should ignore everything that hasn't been peer reviewed, but it does mean that when you want to get to the bottom of things in a contentious area like this you have to give the peer reviewed stuff greater weight.

You paint the picture here as if all peer reviewed research in this area is somehow 'controlled" by the industry. It clearly isn't. Look in publications like The Lancet and other major independent medical journals and you will see that there is a substantial body of good, independent, work, on many aspects of this stuff. It doesn't all point in one direction and it doesn't look like it has been skewed by funding sources or pre-determined views. (There is plenty of stuff out there that is, but it is not in the good journals) . This is the stuff that leaves us in a situation where the the "jury" really does remain "out" at the present time.

Cheers

Rod

Feb 21, 2010 3:20 PM in response to Rod Hagen

Is there a peer-reviewed publication for electronics? I'm thinking the only thing close would be IEEE.

BTW, the HARApad team would like me to clarify my earlier comment. I will respond once I get the TriField meters to see how well EMI is stopped. RFI is not stopped with that particular board.

ForEMI/RFI emissions controls on the board level I found this -

Regal Electronics – EMI/RFI emission reduction connectors and components
http://www.regalusa.com/emi-rfi_solutions.html

Regal Electronics – How to Solve Emission Problems
http://www.regalusa.com/howto_solve_emissionproblems.html

Feb 21, 2010 11:38 PM in response to pritchet1

There are many, many peer reviewed Electonics and Electronic Engineering peer reviewed journals, pritchet, (the International Journal of Electronics" is the first of many to come to mind, but these aren't really what you need to answer this sort of question, are they? The critical issue here involves the biomedical implications of EMI exposure.

There are obviously multidisciplinary issues involved here. The "tin hats" may well be of critical importance for info about EMI output levels, but these are only of significance if we know that any effect at the human end is real. You'd be far better off looking at the journals that try to deal with both sides of such things rather than imagining, as you seem to, that ham radio operators or others of their ilk are going to have the answers! I'm sure most of them would actually say just the same!

Hey! There are even peer reviewed journals out there that deal specifically with bio-magnetic and bio-electrical issues. If you do your research properly you will no doubt run across them, though I personally prefer the big name , truly independent, players like "the Lancet" when it comes to such things. If you don't know what they are yet, then you obviously should not even be considering publishing your thoughts for a while. They aren't that hard to find!

Cheers

Rod

Feb 22, 2010 9:47 AM in response to pritchet1

Why should we rely on peer-reviewed articles as authority on stuff that peers do not agree to


Ah, you've just discovered the fundamental basis of science for the past 300 years. The best thing about science is nobody is forced to agree with anything you say. But if you, as a professional scientist, carry out due diligence and document your experimental methods and conclusions well, then others in your field will attempt to reproduce your results using the same method. If others can reproduce your results, then your conclusions will gain more and more acceptance throughout the community. Eventually they may be incorporated into theories and such which eventually become part of textbooks. Nothing is ever known with 100% certainty; everything can be questioned.

The problem with many of the studies that I have read on EMF is that the results are not easily reproducible. If someone claims that there is, for example, an effect of neural synapse degradation (completely fictional, I just made it up) caused by EMF, but somebody else is not able to obtain the same results using the same methods, then the validity of the original study is called into question. More and more reproductions would be tried until it could be established with statistical significance that the original conclusions were flawed, or plausible.

If you have somebody random who has published a book on a topic, this system of checks and balances is not present. Sure, somebody else could write a review (+ or -) or whatever, but nobody is under any obligation to publish that, especially not the publisher of the original book. At least with peer-reviewed journals you have the confidence that a number of impartial, anonymous scientists from the same field have reviewed the research and deemed the methods to be reasonable and the conclusions to be logical. Magazine articles are, as you are aware, even less regulated than books.

Anyway, the jury is still quite out on the definitive causes of climate change. I can't speak much to the history of tobacco research, however you can obviously see how science can change over time if something previously known is proven false (if it is true that there were "decades of tobacco studies" that deemed cigarettes to be safe, I don't have time to do the research).

And Travis, who provides you with a paycheck anyway?


I'm currently working in private sector research and development (non-governmental, non-university) and my position has absolutely nothing to do with EMF or electronics or even physics at all. I've simply become interested in the topic of EMF effects on cellular tissues (much closer field), thanks to you. And, given my background, I want to approach it from a scientific perspective rather than an emotional sort of "tin-foil hat" perspective that seems to be common, given what I've read.

Anyhow, I'd like to profusely thank Rod for the numerous excellent resources he has provided. If I get the chance to delve a bit deeper into them and find any additional meaningful information, I'll be sure to post it here.

--Travis

Feb 22, 2010 11:18 AM in response to Travis A.

Thank you for your lucid and erudite response, Travis.

I just found this site - http://zapatopi.net/afdb on the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (Tin Hat II). ;^)

One area I have summarily dismissed are the pendants and crystals approach to EMR. I also saw embedded electronics jewelry at the Tesla Tech Conference a couple of years ago at the University of Albuquerque and dismissed those outright as well. I still see folks wearing copper bands though and swear to their efficacy in improved health.

I still have to do the testing later this week, to see if ELF/VLF and gauss emissions are an issue or not with Macs and our bodies. RFI emissions shows they passed muster with the FCC.

I wonder what happens to when folks when they mod their Macs? Probably something like this -
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3388942/runaway_mower

Feb 26, 2010 8:08 AM in response to Travis A.

The TriField 100XE meter indicates that the HARApad elite does indeed cut 100% EMR emissions eminating from the bottom of my MacBook Pro.

I also found that the MBP 17" pulses around 100mG from the center of the keyboard. It also pulses EMR from the center of the LCD screen and also from the touchpad, just not as much. Ditto with the area immediately below the Apple logo on the back. That area emits less when the magSafe adapter is removed, but curiously, the the touchpad increases mG emissions with the MagSafe sdapter removed.

I ran the meter on a Hyundai flatscreen and got similar results to the macBook Pro screen from the center of the Hyundai screen.

Feb 26, 2010 11:38 AM in response to ericlw1

Good questions.

These people have to live without wireless - and use incandescent bulbs instead of CFLs for lighting. Windup clocks instead of electric. Gas stoves instead of electric. No microwave ovens. Gas clothes dryers instead of electric. No cell phones. No electric blankets.

Computers in a room away from where they are physically located to work online and with wired LAN. No Wi-Fi or wireless network. gthe computer will be a shielded unit. So will the mouse and keyboard. mu-metal. They may even have to wear mu-metal clothing. No sleeping near an electrical panel.All power is grounded and bonded.

Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity (EHS) is a nasty thing to get. About 3% of the industrialized population knows they have it. There are solutions.

Mar 1, 2010 4:58 PM in response to pritchet1

Hey, Rod! Your link made the MacCompanion story!

This is the most recent “don’t worry, be happy” statement - COMAR Technical Information Statement: Expert Reviews on Potential Health Effects of Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields and Comments on the BioInitiative Report


Incidentally, pritchet1, I was optimistic after our previous exchange that the "research" you would post to your website would be impartial and well-balanced. Unfortunately, I read through nearly the whole page (honestly, you +very nearly+ lost me with the above quoted statement) and did not find a single, solitary scientific article, other than the ones you ridicule above. What this basically means is that nobody who knows anything about researching any topic will take your report seriously. It seems you have an agenda and are unwilling to even entertain the idea that you may be incorrect. I also read the thread on Ars. You would be well advised to listen to the advice of DriverGuru on that forum; they appear to know and understand this subject matter much better than you do.

At the risk of this thread becoming more off-topic than it already is, I will attempt to bring it back on track.

There still is *no evidence* that any sort of EMF emitted by a Macintosh computer is harmful to the cellular tissues of the human body.

The best thing about all this is that this thread will almost always be higher on the Google search results list than your website. Therefore, more people who are interested in this topic will read this thread than your magazine. And, the people who do read your article will also likely see this thread, and the thread at Ars. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still here, but this alone is a good reason for it to remain, perhaps with a padlock on it.

--Travis

PS: Just for Google.

MacCompanion. Electromagnetic Interference and Radiation Emissions: Cell phones, Apple Computers and Tinfoil Hats. Robert L. Pritchett. Apple Electromagnetic Emissions. Macbook Pro Electromagnetic Emissions. Electromagnetic Radiation. EMF. EMR. EM. Radiation. Radiation Emissions. Macbook Radiation.

Mar 1, 2010 5:29 PM in response to Travis A.

You are free to do studies of your own by obtaining a TriField meter and running the tests yourself. Apparently you do not believe the studies that indicate that anything over 2 milliGauss is harmful to humans.

You also do not seem to mind that cell phones are also detrimental to our well-being. (pun intended).

You also did not take to heart the conclusions I was b able to do based on what I was able to discover.

I hope you can locate the FCC ID test data for the Macs. I was not able to find them anywhere.

milliGauss readings? Electromagnetic Emissions

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