System Freezes Randomly after 10.6.3 Update

sanmarcos wrote:
I don't understand, Apple would have released a quick fix to such as serious issue, through software update, or would have notified us.

I see nothing in the update description as it relates to the system freezes. Can you please elaborate?

That's the point. What more can I say about it that I haven't said already to make it any clearer?

or it could be the Silverlight plug-in .. you remember Mr. softy w/the old macro-virus stuff and now
trojan horses galloping around. No boot-camp training for me! VMware.. well no comment.

This article has makes no mention of crashes, only the mouse and keyboard problems.

My mac has been consistently freezing since the 10.6.3 update. When I wake from sleep, it freezes and requires holding down the power button to shut down. If I leave the mac on its own for a couple of hours, it sometimes freezes then.

I'm having to hold down the power button to shut down around 2 or 3 times a day.

I understand that those savvy with OSX might wish to avoid immediately saying its 10.6.3, but I have seen no other attempts to pinpoint it to another source. Will any information be held in crash logs and such like?

Your model of your Mac? iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook or MB Pro, MacPro, etc.

Maybe if you could tell us when the crashes began like after installing a recent update?

Did your system work fine in OS 10.6 ? or 10.6.2?

Log files are helpful but once your open your Consule app it may look pretty overwhelming.

Starting with the first few of questions would be a great start.

1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? No
3. Mouse cursor moves? Sometimes Yes, sometimes No
4. Can you click anything with the mouse? No
5. Does the system respond to keyboard key presses? No
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model? Apple Pro Keyboard/Apple Optical Mouse
New item:
8. Video: ATI Radeon X1600:

Chipset Model: ATY,RadeonX1600
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 128 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x71c5
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxxx-139
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.139

I began having this issue sometime after the 10.6.3 Update. After a week or so of random freezes I noticed horizontal lines on the built-in monitor, though not on the HPw2207h external monitor. TechTool found a problem with VRAM, which is terrible with this iMac since it is soldered to the motherboard.

I repaired the drive and fixed permissions numerous times, emptied caches, reset Safari, and a dozen other little tweaks. After reinstalling 10.6 from the dvd and going through the upgrade process to the latest 10.6.3 Combo again, all was well. VRAM "problem" was "fixed." A couple of days of bliss and the problem returned, including the bad VRAM test.

After finding this thread I erased my hard drive, reinstalled 10.6 and restored my files via Time Machine from my 1TB Western Digital Firewire external. I may or may not re-install the 10.6.2 update, but NOT 10.6.3. Will return in a few days with an update. BTW, resetting the PRAM did nothing.

I think someone was definitely onto the issue when they mentioned Graphics and 10.6.3, since the problem always seems to show up in the random lines and the bad VRAM test in TechTool. If it were a hardware issue I don't think these software steps would cure it and/or break it. That's why I added the video section to the original 1 through 7.

Hi napabill,

From what I have heard and read about the horizontal issues: some iMacs are having a problem.
Contact Apple and ask for a repair if necessary. You might have just been hit twice with two
separate issues here. Search the discussion forums regarding the horizontal lines and you might
get more insight especially if it's an iMac.

Hope that helps ... xtech

Not sure this has solved the problem. Seeing the horizontal lines on either monitor now. Also had to deal with a "licensing expired" issue with Adobe CS3 and for some reason Mail keeps showing 15 new messages in the Dock Icon when there are no new messages in the Viewer window.

xtech, just got your post and will check that out.

Thanks,

Bill

I would read this link:

http://www.macworld.com/article/61424/2007/12/horizontallines.html

Look over the reviews ... contact Apple asap!

Apple did become aware of a +specific issue+ with the first version of the combo update & released both an updated combo version available for manual download & a separate Supplemental Update only available through Software Update to correct that specific issue.

There is no plausible link between this & the random freeze issue, as is clearly evidenced by the varying results users with that issue get when they use the new combo (or completely avoid any form of the 10.6.3 update). In fact, since some users can now run 10.6.3 with no random freezes, that suggests not all the freezes are caused by the same thing, be it 10.6.3 or something else.

In short, the rerelease of the combo update is a red herring. It would only affect users that upgraded directly from version 10.6 using the older 10.6.3 combo update & that pretty clearly isn't what most users did when the problem first appeared.

RC_R,

Exactly. I had followed the Software Update path, going to 10.6.2 in November. The problem did not occur until sometime after the 10.6.3, and I had installed all subsequent Security Updates. I'm now back to 10.6 and will re-up to 10.6.2 shortly. Its too early to tell for sure, but I haven't had a freeze and the lines on my monitor have disappeared.

R C-R,

I'm frankly lost in all the descriptions of Combo Updates, Deltas, and Security Updates... but while I still think there is a generic problem, here's what I'm willing to do:

... you give me a step-by-step recipe to erase/install my iMac to the latest version of 10.6.3 and I will give it a try over the weekend.

Fwiw, I have a 10.4 installation DVD, a 10.5 upgrade DVD, and a 10.6 installation DVD... and while I want to start with 10.4 so that I'll have the versions of iLife that came with the machine, I am willing to include or skip any steps along the way.

I don't mind being proven wrong, so here's your chance...

followup... just to remind you what I did about one week ago:

1) erase/install of 10.4 from original system disk (including iLife)

2) update to 10.5 with system disk supplied with the machine... then ran the 10.5.8 Combo Update

3) update to 10.6 with store-bought upgrade disk... then ran 10.6.3 v1.1 Combo Update

This is the installation that "freezes" under a normal boot, works fine under a Safe Boot, and also works "fine" when the ATIRadeonX2000 drivers are "hidden" or when the 10.6.2 drivers (v1.6.6) are used instead of those from 10.6.3 (v1.6.10)...

Any thoughts of a different sequence?

To start with, there is no reason to install anything besides Snow Leopard after erasing the drive. I'm not even sure how you managed to install 10.4 on a Mac that came with 10.5 installed on it originally, if that is what you are saying. Some iMac 7,1 models came with a build of 10.4.10 on them unique to that model (build 8R4031); later ones with model-specific builds of 10.5 or 10.5.2. (See Mac OS X versions (builds) included with Intel-based Macs, What's a "computer-specific Mac OS X release"?, & Don't install a version of Mac OS X earlier than that which came with your Mac for more about this.)

Can you explain more about how & why you used two different system discs with this Mac, each with a different version of OS X on it?

Also, make sure you have iMac EFI Firmware Update 1.3 installed on your Mac (your Boot ROM Version will be:IM71.007A.B03 if you do).

Systems that work fine in Safe Mode but not in normal mode usually do so because of a software conflict or a hardware issue, but disabling or replacing just one extension is not a definitive test of the cause because Safe Mode disables much more (see Mac OS X: What is Safe Boot, Safe Mode?) & multi-way conflicts & certain hardware issues can't be ruled out. (IOW, the 10.6.2 driver could be masking another issue just like Safe Mode can do.)

It should go without saying that if you have any OS installation problems you should try Apple's suggestions for resolving them, like disconnecting any non-essential peripherals during subsequent attempts at installation or upgrade of the OS.

And unfortunately, random freezes can be caused by intermittent hardware problems that are very hard to track down -- for instance, the Apple Hardware Test won't find them unless it is running when the intermittent problem actually occurs. Unless you get lucky, the only way to find them is to wait until the intermittent becomes a frequent or permanent problem. Hopefully, that is not the case here.

I have the most vanilla of setups. The only software I've added to my iMac are Firefox and Microsoft Office (obviously I'm a "switcher"). It's been like this since 2007. I've never experienced anything like this until the 10.6.3 update. Now I experience frequent "freezes", as described in the original post.

While I'll admit that it's entirely possible that something else is the cause, I think it's much more probable that the OS update is responsible. One likely reason that there is not a more vocal outcry is that there are many models of Macs out there and not all of them have the same GPU. Probably the issue is one of timing (frequently an issue with hardware), which means even with the same GPU it may not always happen. I have gone days or weeks without seeing it, and then had it happen twice in 5 minutes. Also, most "normal" people just reboot and go about their day, they don't all post to newsgroups.

I understand that these kinds of complaints happen all the time when OS updates are pushed, across all types of systems. But this is a bug. I'd like Apple to fix it, and I appreciate batondor sharing his information.