24" iMac Screen Freezes since 10.6.3 update - pls help!

My latest - with some interaction with the bug team - suggest everyone with a problem uses that (noting discussions are not a formal means of submitting bugs):

Hi Simon,

This is a follow-up regarding Bug ID# 8659522.

Please update your report directly at http://bugreport.apple.com for the fastest response. Please do not email your updates.

Engineering has requested the following information in order to further investigate this issue:

Can you please attach the GPU hang log that you saw in 10.7.3 for us?

Can you attach kernel.log containing GPU Debug info start to End?

Bug reports requiring your attention will appear under ‘My Originated Problems’. Please review this bug report and provide the requested information via the Apple Bug Reporter at http://bugreport.apple.com. Once your report has been updated, Engineering will be alerted of the new information.

Thank you for your assistance in helping us discover and isolate bugs within our products.

Best Regards,

Developer Bug Reporting Team

Apple Worldwide Developer Relations

******************************************************************************** **************

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS UNDER NON-DISCLOSURE

******************************************************************************** **************

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Bug ID #: 8659522

Bug Title: Freezing iMac8,1

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<GMT11-Nov-2010 23:24:38GMT>

Summary: Seemingly random freezes since 10.6.3 update on iMac 8,1 (duo 2.66GHz ATI HD2600 Pro. running fans at 1500+ rpm via SMCFanControl appears to reduce the freezing instances.

Steps to Reproduce: Run OSX 10.6.3+ for up to 24 hours. Safari and Mail always running, but no real pattern. Sometimes complete lock, sometimes cursor can be moved. Sometime there is a SLOT--1 GPU Debug info from Console (copy below) but it never recovers control. Many similar issues reported on Discussions

Expected Results: I expected my computer to behave like a reliable, sweet computer.

Actual Results: My computer goes away somewhere and ignores me.

Regression: I wish I could tell, but it is frustratingly random, unless I resort to 10.6.2 then all is fine and dandy.

Notes: SMCFanControl at 1500+ seems to reduce the number of occurrences for me.

Attached should be a debug sample from Console: (I have some other lists if this grabs you, but this is not reported for every freeze.

(PS I did not find it easy to let Apple know about this problem as I couldn't find this page on Support, and the crashes did not trigger an issue to "Report to Apple")

<GMT16-Jan-2011 17:09:32GMT>

Many thanks for getting back to me.

I have run AHT several times since the issues first occurred in the late Spring. Sometimes passes, sometimes reports 4MOT/1/40000003 HDD - 1xxx (the number changes between about 1200 and 1350) I understand this to be a HDD fan drive over speed (?) from forums, and iStat pro normally reports the exact same fan speed for the Hard Disk Drive. It usually reports ok if I run it first thing in the morning after leaving it all unplugged.

No other issues or failures reported.

Yours,

Simon

<GMT04-Apr-2011 20:42:23GMT>

Mine is an iMac8,1 system serial YM836***ZE3. Crashes always involve Safari as a minimum (usually with Mail in the background). However, if I do a software update or set up as a new user on anything beyond 10.6.2 it works faultlessly for about 3, maybe 4 days. Then freezes start, sometimes with mouse movements and a frozen screen (time stuck), sometimes screen switches to some blank or lined screen. Hard reset required, then freezes every few hours. Sometimes GPU crash log recorded by Console, sometimes not.

SmcFanControl did appear to alleviate the problem, so one might think it was a temperature/hardware issue, but the new user/new update and ~4 days fault free operation would make you think it might be a memory leak? Who knows? Only thing for certain is that the 10.6.2 drivers get around the issue. But I guess a lot of iMacs must be unaffected, else it would be reported more widely? So maybe just a limited hardware version? Or perhaps a corrupt firmware issue (don't know how to reset that one?). Other resets don't change behaviour (SMC, PRAM). All very strange, very annoying/disappointing/frustrating. Si

<GMT28-Jun-2011 21:51:05GMT>

Jeez. Check out the support thread: [iMac (Intel)] - Re: 24" iMac Screen Freezes since 10.6.3 update - pls help!

as it reports that the 10.6.2 ATI driver "hack" does not appear to work under 10.6.8 for the many users there. I have not updated due to that thread's experience. We cannot believe that it can be a hardware issue as it is only apparent for the drivers beyond 10.6.2. What a terrible experience. Makes some of use impressed that windows can work under so many different hardware configurations and drivers where as Apple does not seem to be able to resolve its own hardware.

If you like I could try 10.6.8 and submit any crash logs, but as it didn't seem to enlighten anyone your end I guess it would be a waste of my time…

How about a new Apple Logo "never buy a mac without Applecare, else we won't care!"

<GMT07-Nov-2011 22:30:44GMT>

This issue has been verified as resolved and can be closed.

<GMT07-Nov-2011 22:30:58GMT>

This issue has been verified as resolved and can be closed.

<GMT07-Nov-2011 22:31:09GMT>

This issue has been verified as resolved and can be closed.

<GMT07-Nov-2011 22:35:39GMT>

Hi, I am extremely pleased to report that with the latest Lion release 10.7.2, I have not had to hack the ATI2600 kext files back to 10.6.2 and everything appears stable. No freezes after 6 days without a restart, and now 10 days without a restart.

For information, the Apple Support community thread is still reporting some freezes to a mix of machines.

<GMT09-Feb-2012 22:18:49GMT>

Oh bother. Release 10.7.3 has gone back to exhibiting the exact same issue as every update since 10.6.2 EXCEPT 10.7.2, White screen or frozen screen (usually with cursor still moving ok, but nothing else changing on the screen and no clicks or keyboard entries being processed. Sometimes with a GPU debug log registered, sometimes not ) I attach the system report with this for your edification.

From the discussion forums, I seem to be the only one who had success with 10.7.2 - everyone else was reverting the 3 kexts for ATI to 10.6.2 versions for a stable machine. I tried the same with the 10.7.2 kexts, but with no success - freezy time - and frustratingly I didn't keep a system back of 10.7.2 before the update, which with the Lion installer I now have no way of reverting back to 10.7.2 from 10.7.3. RATS, RATS, RATS.

I see from the discussion forums that other machines (MacBook Pro and Man mini) also have freezing issues and next fixes reported. Obviously it is not every machine, but it is bizarre. I trust that your machine build configuration control is as robust as can be - Apple develop the hardware and the software but still seem to be tripping up with the GPUs? Some have success with Applecare logic board replacements - but it is odd that a software fix would work around the hardware, unless it is a configuration issue?

Been nearly 2 years now, these machines aren't cheap and are otherwise fantastic. I really hope that the answer to this is not the Lion autosave feature…

<GMT09-Feb-2012 22:18:50GMT>

'iMac 10.7.3.zip' was successfully uploaded

Thank you for the update. Just today I followed your suggestion and filed a bug report with the specifics for my machine, a mid 2007 20 inch iMac 2.0 GHZ Core 2 Duo with 4 gigabytes of RAM and an ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128 Mb of video RAM.

Here is the text of my submission:

Summary:

iMac (intel) mid 2007, 20 inch with 4 gigabytes of RAM, ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT (128 Mb) video card running without problems on Mac OS X 10.5.8 is upgraded to Mac OS X 10.6.8 or Mac OS X 10.7.3 and the display freezes/crashes repeatedly rendering system unusable.

Steps to Reproduce:

Clean install of 10.6.0, then update to 10.6.8

-or-

Clean install of 10.6.0, then update to 10.6.8, then upgrade to 10.7.3

-or-

Clean install of 10.7.3 using bootable USB stick

Expected Results:

Normal video display operation

Actual Results:

-Repetitive video freezes, mouse can usually be moved on the screen but cannot interact with GUI elements, only way out is to do a forced shut-down using the power button. Intermittent spinning "beach-ball"

-Noticeable graphical distortions affecting various display elements (buttons, icons, finder text) up to totally garbled/distorted display.

-Sometimes the freeze will not even allow for login, sometimes it will happen within seconds or up to several minutes of login.

- When able to get screenshots, graphical distortions are recorded on the saved image.

- If the computer is left alone, eventually it *does* become responsive (sometimes after several hours) but the display is totally garbled and user can not interact with GUI, again a forced shut down is the only option at this point.

Regression:

Problem occurs when starting up in "normal" mode.

Problem occurs when starting from the internal drive or from a drive attached via USB or FireWire.

Does not occur when starting up in safe mode.

Does not occur when starting up in Mac OS X 10.6.0

Notes:

1. References to related problems: See Apple Discussion thread https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2384136

2. Effective workaround: See page 28 of above Apple discussion thread at https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2384136?start=405&tstart=0 adapted from http://krzysztof-turek.com/apple/. Involves downgrading the video card drivers or kexts to those of Mac OS X 10.6.2.

3. When the computer is frozen and remote login has been activated previously, I can SSH into the iMac from another Macintosh system in the same network and can issue commands and get expected responses from the terminal.

Took my 20" iMac 8,1 to the Apple Store with less than a week to go on my AppleCare. I explained the issues with the display freezes to the Genius and he ran a quick hardware test as well as some intensive video to stress the display. I told him that it was unlikely the problem would occur because it was so sporadic and because I had downgraded my kext files. He looked for, but obviously didn't find, any Apple support doc on the issue but saw my history of reports to AppleCare over the last two year. With much less fuss than I expected, he agreed to replace my GPU and even ordered a new logic board just in case.

It took a couple of days for the parts to come in and I dropped off the iMac for repair. The next evening I got a call from the Apple Store telling me it was ready for pickup. I was told that the video card had been stress-tested and no problem was found. I asked if the video card had been replaced and he told me it had not because the techs didn't see a problem. I told him that the Genius had agreed to replace the GPU and I expected that to be done. He said he was just relaying the message and he would have to get in touch with the Genius to confirm and that if everything checked out my repair would be given a priority.

Got a message a few days later (I assume the weekend delayed the repair) from the Apple Store that my iMac was ready and that they had replaced my GPU as a "courtesy" even though they didn't have to under AppleCare.

But in a case of "be careful what you wish for" . . .

After some delay (they forgot my box and then tried to charge me as the new repair order was dated after my AppleCare expired), I got my iMac with the shiny new GPU home (I knew I wouldn't be able to tell if it made a difference until I upgrade to Lion since I have the old kext files) and fired it up. It booted up fine but something seemed off to me. I finally realized that the top third of my display was noticeably dimmer than the rest which was not a problem before I took the iMac in. So it looks like something got screwed up in the repair.

Now I have to convince Apple to fix the problem since it resulted from their repair. Sheesh!

I have taken the plunge today and decided to order a new GPU unit at a cost of £134! Fed up being stuck on 10.6.2.

I own a 2008 iMac, plagued by the same issue. Despite the expired warranty I managed to get in contact with Apple and have the issue looked at by engineers. I wrote about the process and the result in a blog post.

Long story short, it was determined that the cause of the issue is faulty hardware, so if you experience this problem and still under the 1 year warranty or Apple Care, go on and request a video card replacement and do not give up until you get one. Try referring to my case, id 287990848.

For everyone else no longer covered by warranty, tough to be us. :[

Wait, wait, wait... It's not a hardware issue, let's get that straight. It's a driver issue. Apple or whoever developed the drivers, messed up, and ended up killing older iMacs.

So instead of just fixing the drivers, which will allow our WORKING video cards to continue working. They'd rather us purchase new video cards, or reward those who invested into apple care?

<Edited by Host>

I really think it is a hardware issue. My card showed overheating when checked by my Apple tech. After replacing the card with a revised one from the manufacturer, I've had no issues after 1 month. I had all the same symptoms as everyone else. But I had an NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 graphics card. If it was a driver issue, then why did I have the same problems as those with other cards? Yet I haven't touched my Kext files or anything else. Plus, I'm sure that if was only a driver issue, they would have fixed it. Lion pushes the Graphics cards harder than previous OS versions as well. I may be wrong, by my Apple service tech believes it is a hardware issue and I have to agree.

It is not a hardware issue - to prove this, install Windows, install the latest ATI drivers from AMD, and you can stress the machine as much as you like (eg 3DMark) - your machine will not lock up. This is the first thing I tested with my ATI 2400 based Mac.

There may well be a *hardware errata* which requires a driver workaround that was taken out/broken in the newer OS X drivers. Newer revisions of the hardware do not have the problem and work, which is why a replacement GPU cures the fault. The problem is still a software one.

Apple could easily fix this issue in the drivers, they simply *do not want to* - they would rather sell you a new Mac.

Eclipsethegalaxy-It is ONLY software issue because of bad driver for ATI card's makes overheating...

You have now NVIDIA card, which has a better driver.

How to overheat ATI card? just play youtube video in 1080p resolution

Dear all,

I've had a very similar problem with my 20" iMac 9,1 early 2009 model. This has the Nvidia Geforce 9400 GPU chip installed. All worked fine until the update to 10.6.3 then the seemingly random screen freezes started occurring - at first I thought this was a HDD problem because of file corruption (That was caused by frequent powering down to reset, I later realised).

After reading very many other related support threads, Cleanly re-loading the OS and all updates and etc etc, up to 10.6.8 and even running MacKeeper, I was not able to completely fix the issue - until now. Here's my posting from another thread - I hope it helps some of you too:

>>> Meantime, I've had an issue with the iMac 20" 2009 model crashing with graphics-intensive operations (Such as when running Minecraft, Google earth, Safari & etc). This took ages to figure out - it appears to be caused by an update to SnowLeopard 10.6.3 as many others have experienced. The issue is caused by the original Nvidia graphics chip (Geforce 9400) drivers being incompatible with - or not included in - the OSX update.

It was solved for me by uploading the drivers needed directly from the Nvidia website, as I learned in another thread. You must first load the Nvidia "Cuda driver", and then the package of drivers "Nvidia retail Mac Driver 256.02.25f01" Open the package contents with a right click to get past the incompatibility warning dialogue box and run the install programs manually one at a time. A couple of restarts should then enable the drivers to operate. The system preferences pane will also be updated with a Cuda dialogue Icon.

As many 2009 iMacs will now be out of Apple care warranty this shouldn't be a problem - if you still have Apple care then this approach is not recommended and you should take the machine to Apple (who might replace the GP card with a later - and better supported - version).

I understand these Nvidia-sourced drivers may have to be re-loaded or replaced with updated versions as each new OSX release comes out, at least until Apple decides to include them again. Other threads indicate they were not available in the OSX 10.7 Lion upgrade... (this may have changed by now - don't know 'cos I'm not running it as yet) however OSX Lion is certainly supported by Nvidia...

I would suggest those of you with ATI GP cards look into this driver update possibility as well.

I don't want to pre-suppose built in obsolesence - more likely this is an oversight by Apple. You can draw your own conclusions, but getting under the hood like this should really be the preserve of Microsoft Windows enthusiasts IMHO. As a broadcast engineer with over 25 years experience I have fewer qualms than most about having a go myself.

Apart from finally fixing the screen freezing issue (this machine will now readily run minecraft, safari and replay you tube videos simultaneously) you will be happy to learn it has also corrected the overheating caused by incorrect use of the GP chip.

Good luck to you all,

Andy

hmm. Might have to try this in the future. Haven't had a freze recently but it's only a matter of time I'm sure.

These graphic drivers, they aren't the newest though right? It's pretty much the same as the KEXT "fix" without the KEXT.

Also, since I have an ATI card, I'll be finding the drivers first as well... lucky me 😝

I have not been able to find any "retail" ATI mac drivers to try on my mid 2007 20 inch iMac.

Still using the 10.6.2 kext fix without problems.

If anyone knows how to get these drivers (if these exist anyway) please let me know.

I've been having the same symptoms as many on this thread for quite awhile now.

iMac 27-inch Late 2009 2.66 Ghz Intel Core i5

ATI Radeon HD 4850 512 MB

Mac OS X Lion 10.7.3

Symptoms: Random lockups: 1-4 times per day with seemingly no rhyme or reason. Usually, the mouse pointer continues to move but the GUI is unresponsive. Sometimes, when idle, the screen will refuse to turn back on. In all cases, requires a hard reboot. Quite a few times, will wake from idle and will freeze about 15 seconds after being responsive.

I've tried to isolate the problem many different ways but symptoms continued.

- Restored OEM RAM

- Rolled back to Snow Leopard

- Clean install of Lion

- Reset SRAM & PRAM

- Removed all USB devices, leaving only mouse and keyboard.

Over the last several weeks, taken it to the Apple Store twice. They run "stress tests" and cannot duplicate the issue. Thinking I was doing the right thing, I clean installed Lion - didn't want my personal data floating around in the event the computer got shipped out. Techs said I needed to bring it back without wiping it so they could investigate logs. I'll probably do this at some point but the store is over an hour away - not very convenient.

Last log entries before the last lockup a few hours ago show:

Then a whole lot of hex code, maybe some sort of mem dump.

I've had quite a few Macs, but unfortunately this one cost me the most and is being a real pain.

Jim

Since i have been using fan control for my early 2008 iMac, for about a month now. It only crashed twice.

The two times it crashed i was using aiplay to my apple tv2. When i kept monitoring the GPU temperature when using airplay i noted the temperature went above 50 C. Normal temperature with fan control is about 40 C.

Isn't this strange since airplay (itunes to apple tv2) doesn't use any graphics?

I know our issue isn't hardware. But I thought this article was very interesting. Short story is, a person sued Apple and won. The big part about the story is, Apple tried really hard to give the customer NOTHING, when it would have cost Apple NOTHING to give it to him.

http://www.seattlerex.com/seattle-rex-vs-apple-the-verdict-is-in/