dvd ram

Which model of iMac G5 do you have, Trevor, what OS are you running, and what do you actually want to do with the discs on the Mac? .

I've used "ReadDVD" from softarch - http://www.softarch.com/ to read DVD-RAM disks from our Panasonic DVD-RAM recorder using an external firewire LG burner attached to my PB12. Unfortunately , this software is not yet Tiger capable, though, and my iMac G5 is Tiger only (the "first generation" would run under Panther) .

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=274055 is interesting.

Its fair to say, at present, though that support for DVD-RAM is very limited on the Mac under Tiger

Cheers

Rod

Rod,

You may have gotten your wish. I followed your suggested link to the Software Architects (SAI) web site, and I came across a recent press release that appears to indicate an update of that DVD-RAM readable software to Tiger.

"SAI RELEASES ReadDVD! ™ UDF READER SOFTWARE FOR MAC OS 10.4
Mounts & Reads Recordable DVD Video Discs from DVD Camcorders & Video Recorders

Kirkland, WA December 1, 2005 -- Software Architects, Inc., the leading developer of UDF file system technology for computers and consumer electronics products, announced its release of ReadDVD!™ v1.3 for Mac OS 10.4. ReadDVD!™ enables an Apple computer to mount and read disks that were formatted in all versions of the UDF format (universal disc format). This includes discs formatted with recorded video and data files, and supports mounting and reading of DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray and other optical media.

Solves Common DVD Video Recording Problem
The software solves a common problem for consumers using DVD video recorders and DVD camcorders. These video recorders support a variety to types of recordable DVD media.

Unlike DVD Movie discs that can be read by the Mac OS, popular recordable DVD disc types that can be erased and re-written, like DVD-RAM and DVD-RW discs, use the different VR format (“video recording format”) specified by the DVD Forum.

This format requires special file system software to recognize the format, automatically mount the disc and present the files in “Finder” running on an OS X system.

ReadDVD! is the first and only software that automatically mounts these discs on Apple systems running Mac OS X. Consumers can now quickly and easily mount and copy their personal video recordings to the Mac for editing, playback and re-authoring to DVD."

What I'd like to ask you is: Did the "ReadDVD" software you've been using enable you to read DVD-RAM discs on an optical drive that was not originally designed to be able to read DVD-RAM discs? I have a Panasonic DVD recorder, model DMR-ES20, which records TV off the air. I want to be able mount the Panasonic DVD-RAM discs that this machine creates on my PowerMac G4 desktop, and edit the files in Final Cut Pro.

Neither the Apple SuperDrive, nor the Apple Combo Drive, nor the LaCie external DVD burner I have were designed to read DVD-RAM discs. So, I wonder if this "ReadDVD" can magically make any (or all) of these drives read DVD-RAM discs, or must an entirely different DVD drive be used to accomplish that task?

JMB

What I'd like to ask you is: Did the "ReadDVD" software you've been using enable you to read DVD-RAM discs on an optical drive that was not originally designed to be able to read DVD-RAM discs? I have a Panasonic DVD recorder, model DMR-ES20, which records TV off the air. I want to be able mount the Panasonic DVD-RAM discs that this machine creates on my PowerMac G4 desktop, and edit the files in Final Cut Pro.

Neither the Apple SuperDrive, nor the Apple Combo Drive, nor the LaCie external DVD burner I have were designed to read DVD-RAM discs. So, I wonder if this "ReadDVD" can magically make any (or all) of these drives read DVD-RAM discs, or must an entirely different DVD drive be used to accomplish that task?

Hi BowlerBoy.

thanks for the update on the updated version of ReadDVD for Tiger. Good to know it finally arrived! Sadly they don't seem to be offering a reduced price upgrade for those of us who purchased the Panther version, which is a bit tough, I reckon.

I'm afraid ReadDVD won't turn a "non DVD-RAM" drive into one. It simply deals with the OS issues (I used to use the Panther version). As others have indicated Toast 7 will also deal with the OS problem.

I've seen mention of firmware hacks to Apple superdrives to activate DVD-RAM capability (it is actually diasbled by the Apple firmware installed on some drives). I have no idea how effective such processes are or whether there are any associated downsides - loss of finder burning capability, for example.

The best solution, I'm afraid, if you wish to use DVD RAM with a G5 would be to replace the internal drive with one which is capable of reading them, or to get an external which can. Since this thread started I've purchased Toast 7 and happily converted several shows saved on DVD-RAM on our own Panasonic recorder to regaular DVD, using my external LG 4163 drive (mounted in a FW/USB2 case).

Cheers

Rod

Rod,

Thanks for explaining what ReadDVD does and does not do in regards to reading DVD-RAM discs and DVD-RAM drives.

This particular thread was the first one I peeked into on this subject, and from reading the comments in almost all of the other threads on the subject of DVD-RAM, I have gleaned that, to work with DVD-RAM discs on a Mac, one does need BOTH a drive that is capable of reading DVD-RAM discs in addition to software that will allow the Mac OS to read the DVD-RAM discs placed in such a drive.

I was somewhat mislead by the text in the press release I quoted from the Software Architects (SAI) web page. The makers of DVDRead! published this information as the essential elements needed for their software to function:

"System Requirements
Apple Mac or PowerMac
Mac OS10.3.x or 10.4.x
512 Mbytes RAM
Optical disc drive"

However, as you pointed out, not just any old optical drive will do, as the lazy writer of that misleading copy implies. The optical disk drive must be DVD-RAM capable. And, even if you do have a DVD-RAM capable drive, the Mac OS (at the current stage of Tiger, 10.4) by itself will not do the job. You will need additional software to allow the Mac to read the UDF files on the DVD-RAM disc. If the writer of SAI's press release had used clearer language to more specifically qualify the characteristics of the required drive --instead of using the worthless, generic phrase, "optical disc drive"-- I might have gotten my answer without bothering you.

I am glad, though, that you mentioned the model of the LG Electronics drive which is working for you, because that gives me a feeling of confidence that, should I elect to get an LG DVD-RAM drive (like the Model 4167, which I have since discovered is the current version out in the marketplace), my selection should also be compatible with a Mac.

I have spent several hours searching online for affordable DVD-RAM drives that might be compatible with a Mac, but I have discovered that almost none of the products I have seen online indicate whether or not they are Mac compatible. Either the manufacturers don't know whether or not their products are compatible with Macs, or their marketing gurus and their web page designers don't even care to mention that fact. When I see a product with a table promoting its compatibility with Windows without mentioning Mac compatibility, I tend to assume that the product is not compatible with Macs. I figure that a manufacturer would want to reach the widest market possible, so it would be to their benefit to tout Mac compatibility whenever it is a feature.

Yet, your declaration that your LG drive works with a Mac is testimony that, even though the LG Electronics web site only mentions Windows as the environment for "Drive OS Compatibility," the fact that they do not mention Mac does not exclude the Mac as a compatible environment. Why manufacturers like LG Electronics and others will not bother to include Macs in their Product Specifications table when, in fact, Macs are compatible with their products, is an error in their marketing strategy, it seems to me. Anyway, to confirm whether or not the Model 4167 will work with a Mac, I called LG Electronics and a customer support guy said that the question has come up before and that it will work with a Mac, as long as the Mac has the proper driver, which, I assume, is where SAI's "ReadDVD" comes in, right?

If one reads through the posts on the subject of locating a Mac-compatible DVD-RAM drive, it is easy to deduce that, due to the lack of clear and complete technical information, it isn't as easy as it should be to locate an affordable Mac compatible DVD-RAM drive on the web. My experience over the past couple of days confirms the difficulty of that shopping chore, especially since I prefer an external, FireWire interface. (I don't want to tamper with my existing SuperDrive and ComboDrive.) During the week, though, I will follow up with calls to some vendors to see if the LG Electronics and Panasonic OEM drives that they have installed in FireWire enclosures are indeed Mac compatible. I'll make my choice then.

Thanks to you and to all those who have added their notes to the DVD-RAM threads in the several forums here.

BowlerBoy_JMB

PowerMac G4 Mirrored Doors. Mac OS X (10.3.9) 2 GB RAM. SuperDrive; ComboDrive. LaCie DVD burner. LaCie FireW drive.

If one reads through the posts on the subject of locating a Mac-compatible DVD-RAM drive, it is easy to deduce that, due to the lack of clear and complete technical information, it isn't as easy as it should be to locate an affordable Mac compatible DVD-RAM drive on the web. My experience over the past couple of days confirms the difficulty of that shopping chore, especially since I prefer an external, FireWire interface. (I don't want to tamper with my existing SuperDrive and ComboDrive.) During the week, though, I will follow up with calls to some vendors to see if the LG Electronics and Panasonic OEM drives that they have installed in FireWire enclosures are indeed Mac compatible. I'll make my choice then.

Hi BowlerBoy,

The question of "compatability is often a tricky one . OSX is now compatible with far more external drives than it was just a year or so back. "Comatability " means different things in different situations too. Some drives will work fine through Toast, for example, but not with OSX's own burning capabilities. In some cases, you can add compatability using a simple user installed patch.
My Pioneer 109 - in an external FW case, (which will read, but not write, DVD-RAM) , for example, used to need the excellent "Patchburn" patch to be used with OSX bruning. It no longer requires this under 10.4.3 or later.

Patchburn - http://www.patchburn.de/index.html - will actually get just about any DVD burner running (with the exception of some with a Samsung mechanism)

A word of caution. If you plan on putting the drive in a FW or FW/USB2 enclosure make sure that you get one with an "Oxford" bridge, rather than a "Prolific" bridge. Many of the cheaper enclosures use a "Prolific" bridge. THese can be highly problematic. I have three enclosures with prolific bridges. One works fine. The other two are a continuing source of strife, even with the same firmware installed.

Our Oxford bridged enclosures, on the other hand, have never missed a beat. An enclosure with an Oxford bridge, even if it costs you a few dollars more, should be troublefree when used over firewire with your Mac.

If it doesn't tell you what bridge is used on a particular enclosure the chances are that it will be prolific, I'm afraid.

If you only want to read DVD-RAM I'd be looking at the LG and Pioneer ranges. If you want to be able to write to it too, then I'd be thinking LG or Panasonic.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/ is a good source of reviews of particular drives.

Cheers

Rod

Rod,

Thanks for directing me to http://www.cdfreaks.com/ to get reviews of DVD drives. I went there and found a review for the LG GSA 4167B, which I am considering purchasing in a FireWire enclosure. I was quite impressed at the methodical, mathematical, quantitative, and objective measuring tools used by the reviewers there, as well as their subjective summing up of the product being reviewed, together with direct comparisons and contrasts to benchmarks and other products in the marketplace. The LG GSA 4167B apparently performed very well... well enough to be rated as as "Safe Buy," although lacking some features that would put it over the top into the "Editor's Choice" category. That detailed analysis of the drive's capabilities and performance, bolstered by your personal experience with a precursor to the model as a Mac-compatible unit, makes me feel confident about buying such a unit.

Thanks also for mentioning the Oxford and Prolific bridges in regards to putting the drive in a FireWire/USB enclosure. Until you shared that technical insight, I had no clue as to how a drive that was originally designed with an ATAPI / IDE interface could be used within a FireWire / USB enclosure. By Googling for information on Oxford and DVD, I went to a site like the one at http://www.cooldrives.com/oxmaslinbr.html, and I learned that an Oxford Bridge is an adapter used to convert a IDE/ ATAPI device (like a CD-RW, DVD-R/RW, DVD-RAM, Hard Disk) into an IEEE 1394 Interface device. What a beautiful concept! That opens up a whole new world for me.

Thanks especially with your cautionary words about avoiding the Prolific bridge in favor of an Oxford bridge. Armed with that information, I was able to write a follow-up query to the vendors of the FireWire enclosed LG GSA 4167B drives I am interested in. So far, one has reported back that he uses a Prolific bridge, so I had to inform him that, based on advice I received, I would have to pass on buying his product to avoid "intolerable grief" later on. I'm still waiting for word from the other eBay vendor, but, since his product is in the same price range, it is likely that his offering, too, will employ a Prolific bridge, so, guided by your experience, I may have to reject it, too.

Since I do want both read and write capabilities in the DVD-RAM drive, I guess I'll be limiting my product search to the LG and Panasonic drives, for which I did identify a vendor who has put a model in a FireWire drive, but I don't know yet what bridge they've used or how that Panasonic performs. I like Panasonic and LaCie products, so I had gone to their web sites first in my product search. Unfortunately, LaCie does not seem to have any current models which provide DVD-RAM capability, though they did in the past. The Panasonic web site is huge, and the only models I could find are in the "industrial" section, where, I believe, they provide only the technical specs for the drives which they provide as Original Equipment Manufacture (OEM) to retailers.

Since the data on the Panasonic web site is entirely composed of technical specs, I could not determine from the tabular data alone whether or not a Panasonic DVD-RAM-capable drive would work in a Mac environment, so I came to the Apple web forums to plunge into this weekend-absorbing, market research project. It certainly has given me quite a preliminary education into DVD-RAM technology, but I still have not identified the product that will work for me. While I like what I read at CDFreaks.com about the LG 4167B, the review I read there about a Panasonic DVD model unfortunately was not very positive, so I'm not sure at the moment which unit I want, since I'm still looking for the flexibility of an external unit in a FireWire enclosure.

I had heard of the magical Patchburn utility and its ability to get most DVD burners to work with OS X, but it always better to know ahead of time whether or not a device will be compatible (functional) on one's computer configuration, instead of going through the process of returning it or absorbing the loss of a bad, useless purchase. Knowing that Patchburn and ReadDVD are available and that you've had success (e.g., with your LG DVD drive) incorporating devices that had no marketing labeling informing Mac users that we could actually get them to work on our systems, gives me confidence to proceed. Thanks again

BowlerBoy_JMB

PowerMac G4 Mirrored Doors. Mac OS X (10.3.9) 2 GB RAM. 2 hard drives. 2 optical drives. LaCie DVD burner. LaCie FireW drive.