i5 / i7 MBP / Logic Pro benchmark test

I don't think it shows 16 on any machine, plus in AM when you see the 16 meters displayed, it's clear that half of them have processing going on and the other half are down at zero.

Mike Connelly wrote:
I don't think it shows 16 on any machine, plus in AM when you see the 16 meters displayed, it's clear that half of them have processing going on and the other half are down at zero.

Right, I was referring to these threads... I think these posts might refer to activity monitor rather than Logic, either that, or an early version of Logic 9 displayed all 16 cores.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=10774910&#10774910

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=9701483&#9701483

pancenter-

Pancenter wrote:

Are you saying that an Octo-core Mac Pro shows 16 bars in Logic's CPU window?

I have no idea, we've never had an octo in the studio.. Was just going on what I've seen before with the quad xeons. But it wouldn't surprise me if there's an upper limit to how many virtual cores you can get away with.

In any case, my point was just that if it doesn't seem normal that hyperthreading isn't allowing Logic to see 4 cores on the new MBPs, it's probably because it isn't normal.. and that it is likely to be addressed sooner or later. I just think it's worth everybody putting a word in at Logic feedback to request that we get some official statement on what's going on here.

If anything, I think it -may- go in the opposite direction with Logic being updated so the Dual & Quad core i7, i5 machines only show their actual physical cores as HT does not directly benefit Logic but can help with secondary processes related to Logic. Logic's CPU meters should only reflect the actual physical cores rather than trying to be a dual function CPU meter.

just some thoughs..

pancenter-

djanthonyw wrote:
If that happened then Logic wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the CPU as it doesn't now, it's only using half. Looks like users are going to have to turn off hyperthreading if they want to use their CPU properly.

I'm only saying that it makes more sense to me that Logic's CPU window shows only the physical cores as the HT virtual cores cannot (to my understanding) be used directly by Logic, but can be used by secondary support processes which can positively affect Logic's performance.

pancenter-

"Turn of hyperthreading"

How is that done? In Logic or on the Mac?

Pancenter wrote:

I'm only saying that it makes more sense to me that Logic's CPU window shows only the physical cores as the HT virtual cores cannot (to my understanding) be used directly by Logic, but can be used by secondary support processes which can positively affect Logic's performance.

Where did you get this understanding? Logic does seem to use the virtual cores just as if they were real ones, nothing secondary or support-like about it. On our studio Mac Pro, which is an older xeon with only two physical cores, Logic shows 4 CPU bars (just like activity monitor does) , and you can see Logic spread it's work across the four CPU bars just like it was a real physical four core CPU. In fact, I had no idea it wasn't really a four core machine until my colleague pointed it out to me. It even took quite a bit of convincing on his part for me to believe it was only really a dual physical core CPU. He eventually had to prove it via showing me the system profiler.

So, with this in mind.. No reason why the new i5/i7 MBPs shouldn't do the same. I think it's just a minor update away, there is no question to my mind that it's just an architecture thing that is different from the xeons, so apps need to be adjusted to make use of it. Note that apple say nothing at all about logic performance in the advertising at apple.com for the new MacBook pros. Usually, they like to make at least a small mention of the performance gains of all the pro apps when new hardware comes out. But this time, not a single word on logic. For me this is a sign that they knew hyperthreading on the new CPUs, while already ready to go at OS level, was not going to be up and running for Logic yet. So it was probably wiser to keep quiet for the moment on Logic performance, given that they couldn't announce proudly that Logic would make use of hyper threading on the MBPs like it does on the Mac Pros just yet...

Write to logic feedback and tell them you've noticed and want to know it's being dealt with!

There has never been a two-core Mac Pro.

The first Xeons had DUAL dual-cores - two chips with two cores each - and definitely no Hyperthreading.

Well my mistake, it was obviously one of the ones that does have hyperthreading, and perhaps I got confused about how many bars it shows because I have been away from the studio for a while. All I am saying is that my colleague was very certain that the Mac Pro in the studio does use hyperthreading, and does show the virtual cores in Logic just the same as if they were real ones. I got the details wrong, but I think the point I was making is still valid nonetheless. Accuracy is important in technical discussions, but can we not be übernerd sticklers for details here? Cheers.

Fair enough - one tends to remember the conclusions of an observation, rather than the details of the observation itself. Especially as one gets older, I find. 🙂

Ooh, was that a back-handed age insult disguised as a compliment? If so, snap! Nicely done. 🙂

Anyway, I figured you're more making a joke at yourself as well, cos people like us are obviously part of the more 'senior' membership of the Logic club, so no offense taken. Still, I'm only in my mid-30s anyway... so in the industry I work in, I'm still considered a bit of a young whipper-snapper compared to most of the highly respected experts I'm lucky enough to deal with from time to time. As for my lack of detailed memory on the config at the studio, well that's due to a whole other thing which is totally inappropriate to mention on this forum.. under normal circumstances, I'd remember every detail right down to the very last obscure system setting. But hey. My point about hyperthreading and how it does what it's supposed to do on Xeon Macs and not (yet) on mobile i5s and i7s, I think I've made it. So let's wait politely for an update, shall we? Or, feel free to join me in pestering Apple to put out a support document explaining themselves on the matter over at Logic feedback. End of the day - we bought hardware which has certain advertised features. Those features are known to be supported by Logic, because it's demonstrably the case on other series of machines. So we had no reason to expect that it wouldn't be the case with this new series of notebook, which is advertised as having the same hardware features. I think official word from Apple on this matter is called for, so go tell them so.

tbirdparis wrote:
Well my mistake, it was obviously one of the ones that does have hyperthreading, and perhaps I got confused about how many bars it shows because I have been away from the studio for a while. All I am saying is that my colleague was very certain that the Mac Pro in the studio does use hyperthreading, and does show the virtual cores in Logic just the same as if they were real ones.

Just to clarify... if the Mac in question has four physical cores then per your previous post...Logic is showing only those 4 physical cores and not the HT cores. If it is showing the HT cores then it will be showing 8 bars.

Not that this is of any great importance but I stand by what I said earlier, Logic can make direct use of the physical cores for DSP and other processor intensive tasks, keep in mind a channel strip is a single thread. HT Technology would show little if any improvement trying to manage DSP or VI single threads.

Perhaps recent OSX architecture has changed and can make use of HT as you described, the info I have is pre-Snow Leopard 64-bit.

pancenter-

Pancenter wrote:
If anything, I think it -may- go in the opposite direction with Logic being updated so the Dual & Quad core i7, i5 machines only show their actual physical cores

That wouldn't make much sense from a display standpoint, and if Logic stopped using those cores, it would be a huge bomb with customers.

as HT does not directly benefit Logic but can help with secondary processes related to Logic.

HT absolutely does directly benefit Logic, it's obvious from testing it out on the machines. I suspect it's not as much benefit as full cores, but it's probably darn close.

Pancenter wrote:

Just to clarify... if the Mac in question has four physical cores then per your previous post...Logic is showing only those 4 physical cores and not the HT cores. If it is showing the HT cores then it will be showing 8 bars.

He says that mac is an early xeon. If that's the case, it's one without hyperthreading so a quad should show 4 cores in both Logic and AM. Because it only has four cores.

The newer xeons have HT and the quads do show eight cores (as well as the i7 iMacs and other machines).

Not that this is of any great importance but I stand by what I said earlier, Logic can make direct use of the physical cores for DSP and other processor intensive tasks

Sorry, but this is still wrong. Logic makes use of both full cores and HT cores, and it provides a big performance benefit. This can be easily seen on either a newer (early 2009) quad xeon or a quad i7.

keep in mind a channel strip is a single thread. HT Technology would show little if any improvement trying to manage DSP or VI single threads.

In theory, it doesn't seem like it would be able to help, but in reality it definitely does.

Perhaps recent OSX architecture has changed and can make use of HT as you described, the info I have is pre-Snow Leopard 64-bit.

It's possible that it's a SL thing - anyone have a 2009 MP or iMac quad still running 10.5 - does it show four cores or eight?