Flash player

I'm finding that waking up to read slightly deluded justifications of why millions of websites should go out of their way to design non-flash version, just to satisfy owners of a very very niche gadget, highly entertaining.

By my quick reckoning (and do forgive me, it's very early), if 100 million consumers are being lost because they own an iPad (be real - no-one shops on a phone), even if they represented a generous 0.05% of the buying public who use "computers" to shop online, that would make the non-iPad consumer base 200 billion.

There seems to be some confusion between us as owners of iPads thinking that the rest of the world also uses them. They have only been launched in a select few countries, remember. And as for suggesting we're richer than non-iPad owners, or that people don't shop online on their works PC's is quite a delightful attempt at straw-clutching.

The obvious answer is - Adobe, just one company, spends a fraction of what it would globally cost all flash website owners to redevelop their sites, to create an acceptable version of flash that works on the iPad. Or at least Apple give us the opportunity to download an alternative browser app that accepts flash in it's current form.

Message was edited by: moocherx

Can you give me your proof of nobody shopping on an iPhone? Why wouldn't they? I have, so right there it makes your statement incorrect.

Forget iPads and think iOS, because despite your assertion people do indeed browse, surf and buy on iPhones and the iPad Touch. So a company can choose to set up an alternative, like YouTube has chosen, go totally open, or ignore all iOS devices. And it really would not cost that much to change websites to go with open source rather than proprietary.

I'm sure you've read Mr. Jobs statement regarding Flash, so I don't look to see a version of Flash being approved for iOS, for any browser, any time in the near future. So if you do have to have Flash now is the time to do the research for an alternative device.

I never said that people don't shop online on their work PCs, but they don't in places where their surfing is monitored or ports are blocked. As far as Apple consumers having more discretionary income available than persons buying PCs, etc., that is a demonstrable fact that retailers are well aware of. I'm glad it was "delightful" to you but it is also contained in many marketing databases, and it is based on averages. You may not fit the average.

By the way I never said their were 100 million iPad consumers, I said iOS consumers. If you are saying that the iOS users only make up 0.05% of the buying public (care to share where that number comes from?), then do you really think there are 200 billion people who are shopping online?

Oh dear, if I must.

I said 0.88% of market share was for iPad / iPhone / iPod touch (and provided my source. Where's yours...).

So if you still want to feel part of some gigantic global purchasing user group, your 100 million potential online buyers would compare to 11.36 billion (99.12%) who don't use these 3 devices. I like Apple products, but I don't yet think they've gone inter-planetary.

I'm also a little surprised that you think millions of small business owners who paid a significant outlay to develop their websites with flash in the past, have the budgets of You Tube, to justify developing their own app or changing what is, to 99.12% of the world, a currently accessible site.

Please provide stats for where users whonshop on phones outnumber those who can't shop at work because their browsing is monitored/ports blocked. I work on client sites in Europe, the middle east, and Asia. Yet to find a client who doesn't allow purchasing online.

I have also shopped from my iPhone.

According to Steve Jobs, "flash" is old school, out dated and was intended for use on a PC which uses roll-over mouse movement. It is not comparable with the newest technology in touch screens. Apple will not move backward. This bothered me a little at first too, but I now use the iPad app store and find just about everything I need and have no video viewing issues. Hope this helps answer the question!

mwpad wrote:
I am a novice apple user and received the iPad as a gift. I enjoy using device and was stunned when I went to view something on the Internet and I was not able to view the information because it required a flash drive for presentation. We are reviewing the iPad for use at work and I must point out that the device does not support viewing certain Internet information. I believe many of the people that have bought the iPad did not realize it limited you from viewing certain Internet content when they bought it, except all you geeks that routinely hit sites like this. This may not impact some and will impact others opinion on keeping the device or buying it. I came here looking for help to get an "app" that would run flash in the background or something like that. Come on, give us a work around!

I do like the iPad and will likely return it until I have complete Internet access from it.

Well, you'll never be using an iPad I guess. Steve Jobs will not lose any sleep over it.

deggie wrote:
Don't be fooled by OS numbers, that includes business numbers where you aren't supposed to be accessing personal sites and home computers where people use their Windows computer with their iOS device. And, in a marketing database, with most people with an Apple product you are looking at people with a higher level of disposable income.

So if a site can ignore 100 million potential customers they must be doing very well indeed in this harsh economy.

And that's a 100 million high income market segment. Advertisers don't consider all targets as equal. Someone selling higher end products desire a segment like an iPhone/iPad user.

Let's consider the facts. In this really bad world economy, Apple is selling out devices that are not NEEDS, but discretionary purchases. Advertisers love that type of customer, so using Flash to NOT reach this segment is dumb.

Message was edited by: OrangeMarlin

moocherx wrote:
iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch operating systems account for 0.88% of operating system market share (source: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8)

I think a lot of companies could afford to market to 99.12% of people able to view their websites in flash.

Of course, that's not how marketing is done. That 0.88% (which is invalid anyways) has higher income and education. So even if 0.88% was valid, the potential purchasing power of that segment is much larger.

Flash is dying. No one cares.

Bravo on your ability to dismiss facts with such carefree abandon, and without feeling the need to provide others to support your claim. I'm beginning to gain a genuine understanding of how brainwashing (or let's call it 'good marketing') works.

I would also be careful not to jump to so many blindly outrageous conclusions, such as those regarding the supposed elevated income levels of those purchasing Apple devices that do not support flash. Care is also advisable when commenting on education levels, unless irony was intentional.

Anyways... I admire the religious fervour with which some view Apple devices. I use them because they are practical, of sound quality, are well-designed, and communicate easily with each other. Perhaps viewing their product range rationally (a propos the lack of flash support, for example) is a trait Apple finds undesirable in it's target audience.

Finally, I don't disagree that flash is dying. However, my 1 month-old Sony full-HD tv still has a VGA connector at the back. It's all about integration with existing technologies.

Do you have DVI on your Sony?

Parallel port on your computer?

If you have read the letter from Mr. Jobs you would know what Apple's issue with Flash is.

As far as the "blindly outrageous conclusions" you keep harping on, it is a matter of fact, retailers do a lot of research on this. Would you also say it was outrageous to claim that BMW owners have a higher average level of disposable income?

depends on the BMW model

In the UK, BMWs are notoriously driven by junior sales reps. Wheras in Thailand, where I also live, they are extremely popular amongst the high income, low class types.

I still don't disagree with anything Jobs said. I completely agree flash is an unwieldy performance hog. But support it until a critical mass of sites no longer use it.

That aside, I quite easily jailbroke the iPad this afternoon (had to revet to 3.2, but no big deal). I've been able to finally use my 3 bank websites properly, and view several UK real estate websites... where the virtual tours are all - you guessed it - flash driven.

Banks should not be using Flash.

I think Apple should enable Flash Player for iPad as many Web site support it. Since iPad is easy to carry around for social or work. I propose Apple to reconsider this support especially a lot or people are using Facebook.

Rgds

You might want to reconsider that:

http://www.businessinsider.com/flash-video-on-android-is-terrible-2010-8

It's apparently not quite ready for primetime.

linus Tay wrote:
I think Apple should enable Flash Player for iPad as many Web site support it. Since iPad is easy to carry around for social or work. I propose Apple to reconsider this support especially a lot or people are using Facebook.

Rgds

Won't happen. I use Facebook on my iPad through Safari. If there's Flash content, I'm not missing it. If you're talking about Zynga games on Facebook, well, I don't play them because they use Flash. It ruins my laptop because Flash grabs resources and memory.

So, there is no use for Flash on Facebook unless you play games. Not very important to most of us.