Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls

I have to agree with some earlier posts and say that it seems like as Apple is becoming a bigger company they are forgetting their true values and are becoming just like Microsoft. Full of bugs!

I'm also having trouble with the proximity sensor, on a call today and suddenly my music starts playing in my ear, it just does not seem sensitive enough.

Mike

Riversen,
I will be returning my iP4 if the update doesn't come soon or doesn't fix the problems. I'll just go back to using my 3gs, which has worked flawlessly for the last year. The iP4 is an awesome step forward compared to the 3gs, but I need a phone not just a toy (I want both :)) I don't see buying another phone to get me by, I paid good money for this phone and expect to be able to use it as a PHONE.
Saying that, if I do end up returning it. If the problems are fixed in a few months I may give it another try.

Another finding:

I have access to an Iphone 3G and 3GS. Today at lunch I did some additional quick tests. I noticed that both the 3G and 3GS deactivated the screen at about 2 inches. The screen stayed deactivated until I moved the paper past that 2 inch mark (no matter what I did). It did not matter how close I got to the screen or how long I waited. Both phones would wait until I finally crossed the 2 inch distance before turing back on the display!

This is different than the results that I found with the Iphone 4 yesterday. It would turn off the display at about 2 inches the first time, but the distace required to keep the display deactivated decreased. So the Iphone 4 does work differently than the Iphone 3G and 3GS. It can detect at the same 2 inch mark. For some reason, the Iphone 4G reduces the distance required to keep the display off as your face moves in and away from the display. This could explain why why people experience the proximity issue in different ways or etc.

If Apple could or would make the Iphone 4G work the same way as the Iphone 3G and 3Gs, then it may be OK. Maybe they did this to reduce battery drain and increase battery life!

Also, I tried the black surface test. The Iphone 3GS and 3GS experienced the same reaction in the distance that the display was deactived. This result was similar to that of the Iphone 4G. So the Iphone sensors must use IR and that obsorbs some of the reflected signal from the IR.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

As TrentP posted earlier, the problem seems to be the weird "memory effect" that the sensor is exhibiting. I did perform the same experiment and confirm that it is in fact the case.
Please do the following and let all of us know if that is the same for you:

1. put the phone on a flat surface.
2. make a call to 611 (for example)
3. Slowly start moving some object (hand would be the best choice) toward the sensor. You should see that the sensor will activate at around 1.5 - 2 inches.(if not reboot and try again)
4. move it away and back toward it again and you should see the same range.
5. now that sensor has activated and the screen is dark, move the object even closer (1/4 inch) and hold it there for several seconds.
6. start moving the object away from the sensor and you'll see that the screen will come back to life at MUCH smaller distance than before. (in my case 1/2 inch). When, if well calibrated, it should do it at 1.5 - 2 inches.

This leads me to think that the sensor (hardware) is OK and the software causes this "memory effect"

Please confirm
Thank you all!

AND Apple, if you are reading this you may want to consider this experiment in your efforts of resolving the issue.

Thank you TrentP for a great find!!!

When or if this is fixed I will be getting another iPhone 4 but Apple should give you a free one!

....or hire you!

I knew it was related to range but the "memory effect" finding is phenomenal!

TrentP wrote:
Another finding:

I have access to an Iphone 3G and 3GS. Today at lunch I did some additinal quick tests. I noticed that both the 3G and 3GS deactivated the screen at about 2 inches. The screen stayed deactivated until I moved the paper past that 2 inch mark (no matter what I did). It did not matter how close I got to the screen or how long I waited. Both phones would wait until I finally crossed the 2 inch distance before turing back on the display!

This is different than the results that I found with the Iphone 4 yesterday. It would turn off the display at about 2 inches the first time, but the distace required to reactivate the display decreased. So the Iphone 4 does work differently than the Iphone 3G and 3GS. It can detect at the same 2 inch mark. It reduces the distance required to keep the display off as your face moves in and away from the display. This could explain why why people experience the proximity issue in different ways or etc.

If Apple could or would make the Iphone 4G work the same way as the Iphone 3G and 3Gs, then it may be OK. Maybe they did this to reduce battery drain and increase battery life!

Also, I tried the black surface test. The Iphone 3GS and 3GS experienced the a recuntsion in the distance that the display was deactived. This result was similar to that of the Iphone 4G. So the Iphone sensors must use IR or that obsorb some of the reflected signal from the IR.

My gut feeling on this is that Apple is being advised by some "brilliant" minds that they need to tread very carefully regarding the proximity sensor issue. They're probably being told to be quiet for now while some very high paid engineers are behind the scenes trying to figure out if a fix is possible for the proximity sensor with software.

They don't want to put themselves in a position where they acknowledge a problem, say they're working on it, and then determine that it's a problem that cannot be fixed with a software update and that it affects more than just a small percentage of the 1.7 million+ phones already shipped.

I think Apple is logistically playing it smart by not formally acknowledging the problem until they have a solution for it. Make no mistake, though, that I'm not excusing Apple for its "CYA" actions that seem to be taking precedence over customer service in this case. It's maddening as **** for all the people who bought this device that is performing poorly as a phone who just want the company to acknowledge that they're aware of and working on the problem. I understand from Apple's perspective, though, that once they officially acknowledge that the problem exists, the cat is out of the bag.

ok,have not looked at all of these posts yet but was wondering if anyone talked about the type of hands people have. what i mean is, now not to offend anyone, but are the people who are experiencing this problem have soft hands. My hands are hard and calloused, mostly from wood working, and try as i might i cannot make my bars go down no matter how hard i squeeze or hold the phone. Most "you tubes" I've seen show people with soft hands. I realize that this is an odd observation, but, it seems if holding it a certain way causes the bars to go down then it would happen to everyone. just wondering.

Message was edited by: andystac

oops, sorry wrong thread, new at this

I agree that TrentP has done some thorough testing; but what I can't get my brain around is that if this were, in fact, a software problem, wouldn't every single person with an iPhone 4 be reporting this problem?

We're all on a level playing field with respect to what iOS we're running on the iPhone 4 at this point. I recognize that this problem is getting a ton of attention by us on these forums, but I suspect that if the problem really was defective software, people would be lining up at Apple and AT&T stores in droves to complain. I do think this problem is bigger than some folks would have you believe, but it doesn't seem that it's affecting every single iPhone 4 in the way it should if it were a software problem.

Good point. But maybe the other people are all using bluetooths, or earbuds to make a call. Maybe if it is a software problem, then only certain configurations of settings, applications, or usage conditions are setting it off.

I had a coworker tell me, "oh yeah, come to think of it I did hit buttons during a call once" only to then go on talking about some quirk with using the camera.

I just got off a call, the whole call I was looking into a mirror to watch the phone.
I held the phone tight to my ear for the entire call. At first the display went black, then started to flicker on/off. Sometimes it would stay on for 5 to 10 seconds before going off again.
Earlier in the day I checked the distance before the screen went black. It was pretty consistent at 3/4".

I'm also experiencing proximity problems. But in reverse. My iPhone 3gs screen will not turn off when making a call. Resetting setting, restore to 'new iPhone' doesn't do anything. Was working fine before installing iOS4.

Just did some testing with something other then my ear/head. I tried different types of materials. It seems the (IR) sensor is not calculating things correctly.

When i put a white piece of paper directly on top of the sensor during a call, nothing happens. When i try a green piece of paper the screen sometimes shuts of. It had to be right on top of the sensor though. When i put a solid black piece of paper on top of the sensor, it works. But not as good as it worked in 3.1.x. The inch distance is no longer working. Only works when light is completely blocked with a black surface.

Glad to see this because now it is definitely marked as a software glitch. Time for an update (and press-release) Apple.

Footnote: The black material is a external hd-case. The screen does not stay of when it's put on top of the iPhone 3gs. It lights up again in a second or 2. The light is dimmed do minimum, indicating that the ambient-light sensor is doing it's job.

+1 for the proximity sensor thing. This is the most annoying feature of the phone, and is making it unusable. I can live with the 'I have to buy a case because the antenna design is flawed'. The phone (with the case) functions as a phone. This sensor problem, however, is a different matter.

This proximity glitch is just downright insane. Where is Apple on this? If this is a software glitch, release a fix immediately. More than 50% of my calls are affected by this issue. Unless I hold the phone firmly against my ear without moving it, someone is getting muted, put on hold, hung up on, etc.

I am slowly losing faith in what I thought was a company that built better products.

I'm waiting for a os update, and if it's not fixed by then, Apple gets my phone back.

I tried several different configurations during my testing.

The Iphone 4 that I had turned off at about 3/4 of an inch as well before. When I started my testing I noticed that it was at 2 inches for the initial deactivation of the display. The only thing that I did was a hard reset (holding the botton on the top of the phone in until it reset the device) and turned it back on again. I did play around with the auto brightness setting to see if that had an effect. At first I thought that it did, but I could not exactly prove it. I finally left the auto brightness set to "on" for the rest of the testing. You may try these simple steps as well and see if that makes a difference. When I was at the Apple store the Manager and I reproduced the same effects on their Iphone 4's that I found on my Iphone 4. Part of testing is to setup a device and keep the setup consistent as you do the test. Make small changes and then repeat the same exact steps and repeat.

I thought that I found a difference in the way that the brightness on/off affected the result, but could not prove that. What I mean is that setting the "Auto Brightness" setting to "ON" will cause the screen brightness to change as the display turns on and off during a call (I hope that this makes sense). At first, as I triggered the display (durring my simulated call) I noticed that the brightness level of the display would change as the display reactivated itself. I thought this may affect the problem as well. However, I could not prove it duing my tests.

The problems with bugs (if this is a bug) is that certain conditions have to be present before the bug will show up. It is possible that some small change in setups or etc can make a bug reproducable or not.

I think that this could be a combination of things. I have verified that:

- The Iphone 3G and 3GS proximity sensors work the same and have about a 2 inch range

- The Iphone 4 proximity sensor works differently than the 3G and 3GS

- The Iphone 4 sensor does have an effective detection range of about 2 inches and is about the same as the previous Iphone devices

- Therefore, Apple must have changed (on purpose) the way the Iphone 4 detects proximity to the display. They may have done this to save battery life or etc. Apple is not continually using the 2 inch range on the Iphone 4 as they did with the previous Iphones even though the sensor has a two inch range.

- This modification may not work or is buggy. Electronics do have tolerances that affect them. It could be that the proximity senors have some variation from device to device. Although, it should not be in inches or etc. It should be small.

- The proximity sensor is affected by the source reflecting the signal. This makes sense. Some sources (material, people, etc) obsord energy differently. This could also explain why some people see different effects. Their skin tone, makeup, etc could have some effect. Although, it should be small unless it is really a design issue.

- So when you design electronics that can be affected by different variables (tolerance, skin tone, light, material, what ever) you have to include enough design to componsenate for those things. The previous Iphones did, becuase they always seem to detect at around 2 inches. I am sure that this (2 inches) was enough to compensate for sensor differences between phones, skin tones, different lighting conditions and aother variables that would affect the proximity sensor quality/measurement. The Iphone 4 does not have enough tolerance in the proximity sensor setup to componsate for the different varables that it will encounter.

- The new Iphone 4 is different, because Apple has decided to improve/screw up the proximity method. It could be that the method they used does not compensate for all of the variables that could effect the quality of the IR signal and the end result (keep the display off during a call). It is obvious that the proximity sensor has a two inch range. Apple decided (it appears) to change it and must not be allowing for variables. This could be a setup (firmware) change and not as much as an electronics modification.

- If Apple can/will change this method, then all may be well again.

I am more than impressed! May I ask what your background is? (if you don't want to answer I understand)

You are an excellent troubleshooter. I think you have saved Apple several million dollars...

TrentP wrote:
I tried several different configurations during my testing.

The Iphone 4 that I had turned off at about 3/4 of an inch as well before. When I started my testing I noticed that it was at 2 inches for the initial deactivation of the display. The only thing that I did was a hard reset (holding the botton on the top of the phone in until it reset the device) and turned it back on again. I did play around with the auto brightness setting to see if that had an effect. At first I thought that it did, but I could not exactly prove it. I finally left the auto brightness set to "on" for the rest of the testing. You may try these simple steps as well and see if that makes a difference. When I was at the Apple store the Manager and I reproduced the same effects that I found on their Iphones. Part of testing to to setup a device and keep the setup consistent as you do the test. Make small changes and then repeat the same exact steps and repeat.

I thought that I found a difference in the way that the brightness on/off affected the result, but could not prove that. What I mean is that setting the "Auto Brightness" setting to "ON" will cause the screen brightness to change as the display turns on and off during a call (I hope that this makes sense). At first, I thought that as I triggered the display durring my simulated call I noticed that the brightness level of the display would change as the display reactivated itself. I thought this may affected the problem as well. However, I could not prove it duing my tests.

The problems with bugs (if this is a bug) is that certain conditions have to be present before the bug will show up. It is possible that some small change in setups or etc can make a bug reproducable or not.

I think that this could be a combination of things. I have verified that:

- The Iphone 3G and 3GS work the same

- The Iphone 4 proximity sensor works differently than the 3G and 3GS

- The Iphone 4 sensor does have an effective detection range of about 2 inches and is about the same as the previous Iphone devices

- Therefore, Apple must have changed (on purpose) the way the Iphone 4 detects proximity to the display. They may have done this to save battery life or etc.

- This modification may not work or is buggy. Electronics do have tolerances that affect them. It could be that the proximity senors have some variation from device to device. Although, it should not be in inclhes or etc. It should be small.

- The proximity sensor is affected by the source reflecting the signal. This makes sense. Some sources (material, people, etc) obsord energy differently. This could also explain why some people see different effects. Their skin tone, makeup, etc could have some effect. Although, it should be small unless it is really a design issue.

- So when you design the electronics that can be affected by diffeerent variables (tolerance, skin tone, light, material, what ever) you have to give them enough design to componsenate for those things. The previous Iphones did , becuase they always seem to detect at around 2 inches. I am sure that this (2 inches) was enough to compensate for sensor differences between phones, skin tones, different lighting conditions and aother variables that would affect the proximity sensor quality/measurement. The Iphone 4 does not have enough tolerance in the proximity sensor setup to componsate for the different varables that it will encounter.

- The new Iphone 4 is different, because Apple has decided to improve/screw up the proximity method. It could be that the method they used does not compensate for all of the variables that could effect the quality of the IR signal and the end result (keep the display off during a call). It is obvious that the proximity sensor has a two inch range. Apple decided (it appears) to change it and must not be allowing for variables.
- If Apple can/will change this method, then all may be well again.