Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued.

TrentP,
Thanks for all the insightful and informative posts (and tests!).
I'm on #2 myself, just back from vacation and have already made a case # online to attempt another swap here in Birmingham. *You (and others) are 1000% correct. *Apple has GOT to come clean on the Prox problem for us tomorrow. If it's just some Dog + Pony show about the antenna issue (which neither iP4 of mine has had) then it is indeed time for us to return for a full refund or... keep swapping.
We can onlt hope they do the right thing TOMORROW.

Dear TrentP ,

As you described and what you corectely pointed is an algorithm of the sensoring , as I also mentioned before. The algorithm can be fixed by software .
Here is you are correct. But as you mentioned the dieferent sensitivity depending on the distance is what I called already " Diagram " of sensetivity. As I mentioned the Diagarm ( How much sensetiveity to the left , right and from the distances ) can NOT be changed by software it is in the hardware of the sensor. This will not be fixed by ANY software. Some dynamics ( memory , time and etc) can be fixed but as I tested dynamic factors are not the reason.
It made me to come to final conclusion of the Posittion change and possibly sensor type change is a MUST to fix the problem.

I agree with you. I am actually leaning towards "they don't care" or at least that's how I feel. At first everyone was asking " how's the new iPhone?" and now they are asking about all the problems that are associated with it. I think only iPhone users are really aware of the proximity sensor issues, as consumer reports only cited the reception issues. I am having both, although I don't know if I have been losing some people due to reception or muting them, lol! (Apple, that was a joke for us....you better not be laughing!!!!). The phone is fast when it comes to email ( no email problems here), using safari, and everything else. Who woulda thought the worse working thing on the new iPhone, would actually be the "phone" part??? They might as well take these back and send out new FIXED ones and sell these as iPod touch 4's. Steve jobs needs to be front and center tomorrow morning and I don't want one of those d@mn bumpers!!! If so, I would have ordered one! Just think....I ordered on June 19th and didn't get it until July 12th.....all that time waiting for this "iPod" that was supposed to be the new iPhone. I will admit that if the phone did work at least decently, it would have been the best phone ever, period. No question about it. I'm waiting to see what is going to happen tomorrow and I'll go from there.... Xx

Dear TrentP ,

Tomorrow you will and all of us will hear NOTHING. " We are aware and we are working on it and we feel really obligated to fix and continue to be the best and still win the vote from all of you our loayal customers. You trusted us before let us show you we will not disapoint you now."
This what we will all hear.

I am really beginning to feel this is a hardware limitation of the new proximity sensor. I hope that I am wrong but the more I keep thinking about the memory effect, I am feeling that this is something to do with the new sensor versus the 2 or 3 that were in the old models. I feel it would be hard pressed to assume that an all-in-one sensor would work more efficiently or respond faster than separate sensors that each handle a separate function. For example maybe in the older phones, the sensors work in concert and are more accurate whereas in the new phone all is handled by the one sensor and is making the reaction more sluggish. I figure if it was that easy, why didn't they just leave the reaction time the same for the new iPhone 4? Maybe the old sensors were even pointed at slightly different angles? Who knows?

If they don't say anything tomorrow I will be convinced that this is a hardware limitation and may only be fixed if at all possible NOT by software, but by firmware if it even can be adjusted at all.

I am also dropping the term "flaw" or "problem" and going with limitation instead. I do think if it is just an adjustment they will fix it by tomorrow. They have to at least be aware that thousands of people are having this problem and they have not mentioned it at all. Why else would they be trying to bury the fact that it even exists.

And I finally do get what Michael is saying about the position of the proximity sensor having a lot to do with the operation of the phone. At first I though he sounded strange when he was talking about the phone being turned over but now I get that he is saying it is not just about the sensor being at the top of the phone. He is saying that the actual location - for example - if it was near the bottom half of the phone would create problems say if you moved the phone away from your head and needed to push a button and waved your hand in front of the sensor momentarily it would cut the screen. Apple has to compensate for these type of movements based on position of the sensor and also making the reaction time at a slight delay. Maybe they took the average and this is the best it gets with the sensor being in that top position. Maybe it is just worse because of the inherent reaction time for the all-in-one sensor versus the multiple sensors? Maybe the sensitivity is just different. Maybe its just a part that doesn't work well in this design. It won't be the first time something like this has happened on this phone. Think about it.

One thing is definitely for sure though. Somebody is hiding or holding back something that they do not want us to know. That's why this is being suppressed and the answers are dead silent on this issue.

I hope I am proven wrong tomorrow but something is telling me that this will not be addressed at all because this is a hardware limitation.

TrentP wrote:
Dear Michael:

With respect. The first distance that the proximity sensor appears to detect a face is around 1.75" away from the display. At that point the sensor is less sensitive. For some reason it becomes more sensitive as the face gets near the display. Why does it gain sensitivity all of a sudden? Why does the sensitivity change (increase)? Why does the sensitivity change (memory effect) as the face moves near and away from the display? It is possible that Apple actually has two circuits. One circuit to detect the face (proximity sensor circuit) and another circuit that controlls the voltage to the display (turns it on and off). The software obtains the voltage from the proximity detection circuit (it would be a # value) and then decides at what voltage level (distance) to turn the display on or off. Therefore, they could be controlling the process with a combination of hardware and software. This method would allow Apple to turn off the display at other times as may be needed.

For example, the display brightness is controlled by a combination of hardware and software. Users set the brightness level via the "Settings" option and it controls the voltage to the display backlight or etc. So the software in the IPhone controls the brightness level (electronic display) based upon the user setting.

This type of design makes sense.

I guess the bottom line is that Apple is in control. They already know ir can determine what the real cause is. All of us can create theory after theory and not fix it. Apple needs to step it up and let us know what is going on.

Message was edited by: TrentP

chotty1 wrote:
TrentP,
Thanks for all the insightful and informative posts (and tests!).
I'm on #2 myself, just back from vacation and have already made a case # online to attempt another swap here in Birmingham. *You (and others) are 1000% correct. *Apple has GOT to come clean on the Prox problem for us tomorrow. If it's just some Dog + Pony show about the antenna issue (which neither iP4 of mine has had) then it is indeed time for us to return for a full refund or... keep swapping.
We can onlt hope they do the right thing TOMORROW.

I don't really think at this point now swapping is going to make any difference all the phone is different and people who are saying it is working for them it's just cause the way there ear canal is the sensor is way too sensitive to work for everyone cause different people have different shape of ears and CRAPPLES new IPHONE 4 can't keep up with everyone ears I Just hope there is someone in the press tomorrow there who really ask Apple the question about proximity sensor if they don' say anything about it IF they don't say anything tomorrow that's it My Iphone 4 is going back

BTW if that does happen guys please tell me about a good phone I am thinking of EVO 4G then if They don't clear this proximity sensor problem tomorrow

ANy HOw thank you all of you for trying to figure out the problem here AND APPLE FIX THIS PROXIMITY PROBLEM TOMORROW !!!!!!

btw - I also think there is some issue between the same sensor controlling auto brightness and also proximity sensing.

Again, is it a hardware "limitation"?

How do you have the same all-in-one sensor control and read "proximity" AND "auto brightness" AT THE SAME TIME? - Memory effect due to adjusting "Auto Brightness" in relation to dark objects and light objects?

Figure this - what is the timeout before the auto brightness adjusts if you are holding the phone against your face. Does the phone think it is darker in the room now?

Is the "memory effect" adjusting the range based on ambient light or what it thinks has turned into a dark room?

Is it adjustable? Is it a hardware sensor reaction time limitation?

The iOS4.0.1 update totally corrected my proximity/sensor issue! It now works like a charm!
YaY!
Now I am free to love my new iPhone even more!

Dear iPhoneFanSince2G

Many thanks for re explaining my point aboy sensor Position. Also "sensitivit Diagram " is having the same idea . Now I see more and more people getting to the point as I mentioned it is hardware issue.

Dear mpresdm ,

Not for you and not for anybody in thos worls new 4.0.1 amd /or 4.1 did not and will not fix anything. Please test it first for 2 hours before you misslead people,

Sorry MichaelEmpire!
but please do not burst my bubble.
I want this thing to work. We have all been through a lot.
Positive thoughts on my side!
: D

I really apologize I almost " burst you bubble ". I thought you need the working phone ( my mistake ) . Positive thoughts are great but working phone is better. Sorry , just test it and you will see it is still the same.
But what is really strange how some people see some effect of the new 4.0.1 , I tested it on 2 phones and I in 5 minutes new that nothing is Fixed.

But you have better picture of the signal strenth ? At least this thing can make you thinking positive.

Message was edited by: MichaelEmpire

Yep Yep MichaelEmpire, I am good!
Apology accepted!

TrentP - I also have another question I just thought of. Just compared my 3GS to my 4.

Why would you use 3 sensors in the old phone if you could get the job done with 1?

What were each of these three sensors doing? I could even see maybe needing 2 for auto-birghtness and proximity but why 3?

Why make a car with 3 headlights if you only really need 2 -or- 1?
Who puts in extra parts at extra cost if they are not needed?
I am not being sarcastic or anything either.
I am just wondering if maybe you know or could figure it out with some research?

iPhoneFanSince2G wrote:
TrentP - I also have another question I just thought of. Just compared my 3GS to my 4.

Why would you use 3 sensors in the old phone if you could get the job done with 1?

What were each of these three sensors doing? I could even see maybe needing 2 for auto-birghtness and proximity but why 3?

Why make a car with 3 headlights if you only really need 2 -or- 1?
Who puts in extra parts at extra cost if they are not needed?
I am not being sarcastic or anything either.
I am just wondering if maybe you know or could figure it out with some research?

On the 3gs there were 3 SENSORS and it was like this one for Auto Brightness and 2 proximity sensors and If i remember on top of my head even steve jobs said that they did it to have better detection of the face when they introduced 3GS


SOURCE

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-3gs-third-sensor-revealed- as-second-proximity-sensor/

Message was edited by: iphone4_925