Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued.

My two new iPhones are going back tomorrow. We have struggled with them for three weeks now...gone through two cases....I don't want to use the phone...it sits in my purse. Between the proximity sensor issue and the dropped calls, it is just no fun to talk on the phone anymore!!

Good luck RyeDarrow

After thinking all week about returning my phone, here is my conclusion:

Apple, like most companies, is partially motivitated by profit...how to maximize return for the least cost. I think any physical change to the phone at this point such as a changed material for the antenna, changed sensor, or the addition of a second proximity sensor would be an admission of a hardware flaw, and therefore would open the door to drive / force a recall of all the previous iphone 4's. Not to mention, with limited supply, high demand, the cost of re-tooling the assembly line to make the changes doesnt warrant the risk of admitting a hardware fault.

The root cause of the antenna and proximity sensor issue is incomplete testing. They were significant changes to the design, a risk warranted to enable more space for battery life, but the drawbacks were not fully flushed out.

That being said, since there are some hardware issues, but a change to hardware would be so costly at this point, the only viable economic solution I see is to figure a software "fix" for the proximity sensor given the hardware as is. Although I don't think the initial fault was with software, I think if there is anyway to make the current proximity sensor arrangement work with a software change, Apple will do so in order to prevent a hardware change and the resulting cost of a recall.

So, as I see it, the real answer is wait another year for an Iphone 4S? or go with the Iphone 4 configuration as is. Sure the new Iphone 4S? a year from now will make some minor "cosmetic" changes such as a material coating for the antenna and perhaps a different proximity sensor arrangement, but I honestly don't think there will be a physical reconfiguration of the phone between now and then. It would be simply be too costly.

I have no doubt that there will be some software "fix" that makes the less optimum configuration work. Any other solution would be too costly to the share holders.

Herc.

I totally agree with you which is why I took mine back. I want to see what the fix is going to be before I decide if I want to get "stuck" with it.

I loved the phone but the proximity issue was literally driving me crazy.

@TrentP - what did you decide to do?

hercrodan wrote:
After thinking all week about returning my phone, here is my conclusion:

Apple, like most companies, is partially motivitated by profit...how to maximize return for the least cost. I think any physical change to the phone at this point such as a changed material for the antenna, changed sensor, or the addition of a second proximity sensor would be an admission of a hardware flaw, and therefore would open the door to drive / force a recall of all the previous iphone 4's. Not to mention, with limited supply, high demand, the cost of re-tooling the assembly line to make the changes doesnt warrant the risk of admitting a hardware fault.

The root cause of the antenna and proximity sensor issue is incomplete testing. They were significant changes to the design, a risk warranted to enable more space for battery life, but the drawbacks were not fully flushed out.

That being said, since there are some hardware issues, but a change to hardware would be so costly at this point, the only viable economic solution I see is to figure a software "fix" for the proximity sensor given the hardware as is. Although I don't think the initial fault was with software, I think if there is anyway to make the current proximity sensor arrangement work with a software change, Apple will do so in order to prevent a hardware change and the resulting cost of a recall.

So, as I see it, the real answer is wait another year for an Iphone 4S? or go with the Iphone 4 configuration as is. Sure the new Iphone 4S? a year from now will make some minor "cosmetic" changes such as a material coating for the antenna and perhaps a different proximity sensor arrangement, but I honestly don't think there will be a physical reconfiguration of the phone between now and then. It would be simply be too costly.

I have no doubt that there will be some software "fix" that makes the less optimum configuration work. Any other solution would be too costly to the share holders.

Herc.

mbaassoc2003, have you considered the flip side? Isn't it possible when there is a bug, that even though it is present in every single unit (is universal) that only some people notice or experience the effects? Due to variables such as how they hold the phone, etc.

I have a feeling it's more along these lines, as opposed to only affecting a percentage of units. Honestly this is much more concerning to me than the antenna issue. I was going to get a case anyway. I'm happy with how they handled that. But I want a proximity sensor hardware fix. iPhone 4 has ONE proximity sensor, previous iPhones have TWO. I don't see how software will fix that. I'm waiting for iPhone 4.1 to buy. I am really, really excited to buy. As soon as they fix the proximity sensor, I'm sold!

Hello iPhoneFanSince2G:

I still have about one week remaining on my 30 day return. I thought I would wait a few more days. I really think that it is a software issue. I know from my own experience in electronic design and etc that software can cause things like this. The testing that I did makes me think that it is software related. I have seen software overcome hardware issues as well. My company has experienced hardware issues and we have been able to overcome them with software (it is called firmware since it is software running in the device). The users never knows how the issue was resolved and the device functions just as it should with no hardware modification.

I still think that it is a software bug. But..... Let's say it is a hardware issue. It is in the best interest of Apple to fix it via a software/firmware update on the Iphones. A hardware modification is very expensive. It requires additional testing for the hardware and software. If they did make a hardware modification and did not test it really well, then it could lead to a similar problem that they have now. If they recall the devices, then it is very expensive. It is in their best interest to resolve this via software/firmware patch no matter what the actual cause of the problem is.

My gut, experience and testing makes me feel that it is a software/firmware glitch and it can be fixed with one.

We all wonder how this type of issue could happen. Look at how Apple tests their products. My company will release a software or hardware product or update to a select few users for testing. No matter how much testing we do the users always find bugs and etc that have to be corrected. The company designing the product can never use it the same way a customer will. The design company can not simulate all of the same conditiions that a user will use or encounter.

Apple keeps it products very close. Steve J. basically said this in conference on Friday. Apple does not want the product getting out to the press or etc before it is released. So this means that Apple has to do most of the testing internally by their employees (engineers, etc). This is how they keep the secret. Apple can not simulate or test the same conditions that their customers will place the device in the real world. So I am not totally surprised that the first release of their products has a few issues.

I have figured out how to make the proximity problem happen on demand for me or make it go totally away. It is based upon how I use the phone. Apple must resolve this issue and it is severe in nature. This is my problem. If I watch how I use the phone (which I should not have to do) I no longer experience the problem. If I use it a certain way on my ear, then the problem happens almost instantly. So this makes the choice (return or not) difficult for me. I really like all other aspects of the phone. If I return it I would miss it (camera, FaceTime, Speed, Display, etc) versus my 3GS. Apple has no choice and must address it some way.

I have thought of a couple of situtations. I have the Apple Care. So if Apples fixes it soon with a software update, then all is forgiven and life is good. If Apple makes some hardware change, then I can keep returning the phone until I get one that has the new hardware design and then life is good again. I after I thought about it I may take a chance on it. If I could not make the problem go away, then I would most likely feel differently.

I can make the problem go away by how I use the phone. I had a previous post on what I have found to make the problem happen and make it not happen.... I still think that it is due to the memory effect and the average distance (between the two closest points) method that they are using. I feel that this is software related and can be fixed with such. I think that Apple make a big mistake and either inserted this change with little or not testing or they just did not catch it since they do not do end user testing. Basically, we are their end user testing phase.

When we first get a new Apple product, then that first few weeks becomes thier end user testing phase for the product. This is the only way Apple can do it and keep their products so secret.

TrentP:

I had a previous post on what I have found to make the problem happen and make it not happen.... I still think that it is due to the memory effect and the average distance (between the two closest points) method that they are using. <</div>

I must have missed the specifics of this and would like to know. I can have the screen turn on pretty much at will too (on both phones I've had), but simply sliding it a bit more forward on my ear. It is not my normal position, but it may be for others since the sound is unaffected. My theory was that the sensor, at the point where the screen comes on, is when the sensor is over a more sunken in part of the ear, increasing the distance slightly. But at all times, the phone is still against the ear.

I don't know what you mean by the "memory effect" or if it could be related to my experience.

Have only had iPhone 4 one week, and have a couple of issues with sensor. Speaking to customer service this morinng, I asked if OS 4.01 will fix issue, she said no. I asked if a fix was underway, she said she believed so and that it should be available shortly.

You'll like 4.0.1. It's a placebo. It will fix your phone.

Why would she talk about a fix? msbassoc2003 assures us it's our imagination, not a real issue. Hmmm.

I have the Proximity issue too. Just thought I would post this to the number would go up by 1. Always muting and hanging up while on calls. 😟 my poor iPhone 4. I love you to death, but you def have some issues.

PNAYLOR wrote:
I have the Proximity issue too. Just thought I would post this to the number would go up by 1. Always muting and hanging up while on calls. 😟 my poor iPhone 4. I love you to death, but you def have some issues.

Great post.
Your last line made me laugh.

PNAYLOR wrote:
I have the Proximity issue too. Just thought I would post this to the number would go up by 1. Always muting and hanging up while on calls. 😟 my poor iPhone 4. I love you to death, but you def have some issues.

Please Every one also start calling APPLE CARE and let them know How almost everyone with IP4 Is facing issue Probably lot of people are thinking there dropped calls are cause of the signal issue BUT the real culprit might be the Proximity Sensor

ATT can see the difference between the dropped calls and calls terminated by pushing the end call bottom when touching the phone with the face , because of the sensor malfunction.
This is the other reason why apple can not see the real stats how many calls and users have the sensor malfunctioning . It looks like normal call and normal call ending.

I called Apple care and made an appointment with my local store to get a replacement tonight. But Im torn,.....it only flickers once out of maybe 5 calls, and I have never hung up on anyone....yet. I called the store itself and asked what their experience is with these,...if the replacements are better than the originals. He said no,...not really. He said just hold on until 4.1 arrives which should take care of it.
I believe him. Mine is a release day phone, and if 4.1 doesnt take care of it, then I will ask for a new one. Until then I have better things to do then drive 45 minutes to the store, spend who knows how long at the store, and an hour or two restoring the phone.