Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Question:

Question: Apple Music stream in hidef/lossless?

So I just purchased an Apple TV 4K. We have a UHD/HDR television and a DVD/BlueRay so the video thing is all good.

I also have a very large digital m4a music collection on the MacBook Air and backed up on an SSD.

The missing piece is being able to stream in hidef. There's been a bunch of online chatter about that as of late. Is any of the streaming options on the Apple TV 4K transmitted in HiDef?

Thanks

JEE

MacBook

Posted on Sep 1, 2019 4:34 PM

Reply
Question marked as Solved
Answer:
Answer:

Apple TV's audio output is capped at 48kHz (typical video sample rate). Actually it's "forced" at 48kHz: everything exits at this sample rate. Even an AirPlay audio (which basically runs at 44.1 kHz is upsampled at 48kHz).


Audio purists usually on't like this kind of manipulations.


Hi-res audio is hence not possible on Apple TV. Curiously Tidal offers an app for Apple TV claiming, and I quote from an article found on internet, "The same uncompromising, HiFi audio experience to make the most out of your personal home theater."


Now, I'm not a Tidal subscriber. I'm quite curious to know how is this working.


I'd gladly have an Apple TV offering hi-res (bit-perfect) output at least for locally streamed files (via Home Sharing).

Posted on Sep 2, 2019 4:41 AM

Question marked as Helpful

Sep 2, 2019 8:20 AM in response to eilandj In response to eilandj

I was attracted to have my Apple TV hooked as a music source to my DAC since I bought my first Apple TV (3rd version). The idea to keep the setup simple was tempting. Unfortunately this 48 kHz upsampling thing is a little bit disappointing.


By the way my current Apple TV 4th, as you know, comes without TOSLINK port, so I've to use an audio de-embedder to extract digital audio signal. For video it's perfect, nothing to complain.


For audio only use ... well, the sound isn't bad actually – still, you know, audio enthusiasts are always picky... ;-)


Eventually I found a sweet spot adding a device: an audio network streamer, ROON compatible and with AirPlay. My iTunes library is shared with the ROON server running on my Mac.


When I want to listen regular stuff like Apple Music, I simply AirPlay to my streamer: 44.1 kHz, no upsampling – good.


When I want to listen my local hi-res files I send them, again, to my streamer via ROON: bit-perfect audio – good.


When I want to listen audio from Apple TV Movies/TV, I get the audio from the HDMI-TOSLINK de-embedder – good.


Speaking of hearing: I'm 42 and can't hear some high frequencies anymore. It's sad. Anyway, I know this only because I listened test signals with my headphones. I still enjoy listening regular music which is made by fundamentals and harmonics, not only cold test frequencies.


Don't worry about "natural deafness": it's quite normal, just enjoy music. :-)


Speaking of cables: I've learned that spending too much in cables makes little sense. It's fine to have good cables instead of cheap/flimsy cables. There's a threshold above which the price/performance shrinks. Just my opinion, of course.


I agree: nowadays people are happy to listen music through earbuds and don't care for more sound quality. That's probably the reason why Apple hasn't stepped in the hi-res field (yet, I add, because I hope something will change in this regard).

Sep 2, 2019 8:20 AM

Question marked as Helpful

Sep 18, 2019 1:35 PM in response to Marco Klobas In response to Marco Klobas

Apple has rebranded “Mastered for iTunes” “Apple Digital Masters” and is promoting them as “Apple Digital Masters:
 Studio-quality sound. For everyone.” We’ll see if the new TV OS Music app will be “bit perfect.”


I compared my ripped ALAC version of Zappa’s RykoDisc release of Apostrophe/Over-Nite Sensation streamed from my iMac to my TV 4K to my Yamaha AVR via HDMI (48) and the CD played on my HD DVD player (44.1) and PS3 (44.1 and 176.4), both by HDMI. I can’t tell the difference between the three. I listen with headphones and with my 301 II’s

Sep 18, 2019 1:35 PM

There’s more to the conversation

Read all replies
Question marked as Solved

Sep 2, 2019 4:41 AM in response to eilandj In response to eilandj

Apple TV's audio output is capped at 48kHz (typical video sample rate). Actually it's "forced" at 48kHz: everything exits at this sample rate. Even an AirPlay audio (which basically runs at 44.1 kHz is upsampled at 48kHz).


Audio purists usually on't like this kind of manipulations.


Hi-res audio is hence not possible on Apple TV. Curiously Tidal offers an app for Apple TV claiming, and I quote from an article found on internet, "The same uncompromising, HiFi audio experience to make the most out of your personal home theater."


Now, I'm not a Tidal subscriber. I'm quite curious to know how is this working.


I'd gladly have an Apple TV offering hi-res (bit-perfect) output at least for locally streamed files (via Home Sharing).

Sep 2, 2019 4:41 AM

Reply Helpful

Sep 2, 2019 6:48 AM in response to Marco Klobas In response to Marco Klobas

Excellent, thanks.


I didn't see any spec sheet on the audio section. I've not talked myself into Roon/Tidal quite yet. Yet.


Somehow I talked my self into changing every single cable out of my AudioControl/Thiel 5.1 to Clarus Crimson. I tell myself I can hear the difference with even the power cables :-) but a piece of reality says I'm 63, over 300k miles on Harleys since '97 and attended countless concerts since '72. Sooooo, hearing thunder and seeing lightening maybe the best I can actually hope for hehe


We keep getting more and more quality in the video world, yet it seems more and more of general public ($$ market) is happy with iPhone video and ear bud audio. And as the market forces fine tune their offerings .... .... hmmmmm.


Again, thanks - more searching while I wander this Wild West of lossless formats/streaming. Recently, there certainly has been a lot of blistering comments from the engineers slamming the 'hi-def' streamers as artificially bloating their signals producing false higher rates. Rabbit Holes and Angels on Pins.

Sep 2, 2019 6:48 AM

Reply Helpful
Question marked as Helpful

Sep 2, 2019 8:20 AM in response to eilandj In response to eilandj

I was attracted to have my Apple TV hooked as a music source to my DAC since I bought my first Apple TV (3rd version). The idea to keep the setup simple was tempting. Unfortunately this 48 kHz upsampling thing is a little bit disappointing.


By the way my current Apple TV 4th, as you know, comes without TOSLINK port, so I've to use an audio de-embedder to extract digital audio signal. For video it's perfect, nothing to complain.


For audio only use ... well, the sound isn't bad actually – still, you know, audio enthusiasts are always picky... ;-)


Eventually I found a sweet spot adding a device: an audio network streamer, ROON compatible and with AirPlay. My iTunes library is shared with the ROON server running on my Mac.


When I want to listen regular stuff like Apple Music, I simply AirPlay to my streamer: 44.1 kHz, no upsampling – good.


When I want to listen my local hi-res files I send them, again, to my streamer via ROON: bit-perfect audio – good.


When I want to listen audio from Apple TV Movies/TV, I get the audio from the HDMI-TOSLINK de-embedder – good.


Speaking of hearing: I'm 42 and can't hear some high frequencies anymore. It's sad. Anyway, I know this only because I listened test signals with my headphones. I still enjoy listening regular music which is made by fundamentals and harmonics, not only cold test frequencies.


Don't worry about "natural deafness": it's quite normal, just enjoy music. :-)


Speaking of cables: I've learned that spending too much in cables makes little sense. It's fine to have good cables instead of cheap/flimsy cables. There's a threshold above which the price/performance shrinks. Just my opinion, of course.


I agree: nowadays people are happy to listen music through earbuds and don't care for more sound quality. That's probably the reason why Apple hasn't stepped in the hi-res field (yet, I add, because I hope something will change in this regard).

Sep 2, 2019 8:20 AM

Reply Helpful (2)

Sep 2, 2019 10:05 AM in response to Marco Klobas In response to Marco Klobas

I’ve just clipped this to my notes page - in search of the lost chord lol.

I had Mac pre/power amps etc. There was a private bankruptcy sale. The clearance company had no idea what they had cuz it just “looked weird” and the original owner was in jail - no joke! I picked up an18 month old true audiophile system (eventually I was able to track the sales location - none registered with manufacturers?!) at about 90% less than retail. Crazy.

And you are so right imnsho. There’s a point where the $$ makes no sense but each at his/her own point. End of story - I have a speaker system that ‘fits my ears’.

Thanks for the input to help me find my output lol

Sep 2, 2019 10:05 AM

Reply Helpful

Sep 2, 2019 10:08 AM in response to eilandj In response to eilandj

Hopefully this discussion will help others looking for a streaming solution. The discussions can get kinda squirrelly - this covers a lot of territory that not solely Apple, but it’s all interrelated - and mebbe add to Apple’s initiative to help us out in their hard and soft wares!

Sep 2, 2019 10:08 AM

Reply Helpful
Question marked as Helpful

Sep 18, 2019 1:35 PM in response to Marco Klobas In response to Marco Klobas

Apple has rebranded “Mastered for iTunes” “Apple Digital Masters” and is promoting them as “Apple Digital Masters:
 Studio-quality sound. For everyone.” We’ll see if the new TV OS Music app will be “bit perfect.”


I compared my ripped ALAC version of Zappa’s RykoDisc release of Apostrophe/Over-Nite Sensation streamed from my iMac to my TV 4K to my Yamaha AVR via HDMI (48) and the CD played on my HD DVD player (44.1) and PS3 (44.1 and 176.4), both by HDMI. I can’t tell the difference between the three. I listen with headphones and with my 301 II’s

Sep 18, 2019 1:35 PM

Reply Helpful (2)

Sep 18, 2019 10:37 PM in response to Michael from Phoenix In response to Michael from Phoenix

Good to know you didn't notice any difference between Apple TV and CD audio outputs.


As I said, the sound isn't bad at all, just not bit prefect. We'll see if to "Apple Digital Masters" will follow a software update allowing to manage different sample rates natively in tvOS.

Sep 18, 2019 10:37 PM

Reply Helpful
User profile for user: eilandj

Question: Apple Music stream in hidef/lossless?