Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

Top-ranking reply

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

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4,224 replies

RICHD101

Level 1

12 points

May 19, 2020 7:43 AM in response to DPJ

DPJ ,

Tim has been a great help to this community

and he is sympathetic to those who are still struggling with this issue.He is welcome here

by the majority of us.

Saying he is no longer welcome because “he is no longer burdened by the issues he’s experienced “ is uncalled for.

He is a very beloved figure and has contributed a lot to this forum... he has helped many of us understand that the fan noise heating issues are not an isolated matter.

DPJ You have never been burdened by any issues but you are still here chiming in on this issue?

Why ? So as long as you are still here ( not experiencing any issues ) , I believe Tim has that same right and is welcome here.

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

May 19, 2020 7:50 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

If you had read my pervious post.... we had a customer buy some 16inch MBP's and they started having the same issues and asked us for help.... and why I came back here after a couple weeks to see if there was anything new.

When I started this thread, it was when we were buying 16inch MBP's for new employees with the possibility of upgrading throughout our companies. As a Managed Service Provider we must consult and support customers on a wide variety infrastructure and hardware.

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,827 points

May 19, 2020 7:49 AM in response to raimiss

The fans run when the interior reaches a particular temperature. They are working as designed as proven by the fact the machine is not reaching thermal shutdown.

Once again, you are using the fact that the machine is running in a way that is counter to your expectations means it is somehow "broken."

The sensor values are published but reading Intel's own documentation will tell you that their accuracy is such that each individual processor needs to be calibrated in each machine and those correction factors should be applied to the reported values.

There is a good introduction to the issues of temperature sensors here:

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

May 19, 2020 8:21 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

William,

My customer bought a few 16inch MBP's because he thought Apple would be the easiest way for his employees to get started working from home. Now he is getting complaints from his employees that they are making too much noise for video conferences or spouses complaining because they are sharing a room and it is affecting them as well.

We can discuss throttling, sensors, refresh rates, or longevity of a machine running at 100 degrees Celsius… but most customers are not technical and can only compare to other laptops they have owned. If you haven't experienced the issue, you have no idea how loud the 16inch MBP gets and how it can impact some peoples work or environment.

What this also demonstrates, 16inch MBP’s purchased a little over a week ago are showing the same bugs and defects as those that were purchased six months ago.

May 19, 2020 8:41 AM in response to stefanosky

One of the items not already on your list is the private Display RAM for the discrete graphics processor.

On the 15-in model it is a special multi-layer assembly of 4GB HBM2 graphics RAM on a special interconnecting-and-cooling substrate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Bandwidth_Memory#HBM2

On the 16-in model, it is 4GB of smoking hot GDDR6 display RAM, which can sometimes be run at half power, producing about 5 Watts on the graphics side, or full speed/full-power which produces in excess of 12 watts total power on the graphics side.

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

May 19, 2020 8:43 AM in response to stefanosky

Agree with you completely.

The dGPU is a big problem but not the only problem. As I have posted previously, we have seen substantial heat and fan activity with significant WIFI and HD activity while no external monitor was attached and at low CPU usage. We have also seen fans running full speed without corresponding heat. In some cases we have told employees and customers to hit the Siri button which will force the fans down to 1800 RPM's or so (which is quiet) and will reset the fans to normal working conditions for a period of time.

Apple may have not properly calculated all the heat for all the components when they built out the thermals for the 16inch MBP. It's a bit concerning since they had the same issues with certain 2018 and 2019 15inch MBP's.

TailsDog

Level 1

18 points

May 19, 2020 8:54 AM in response to TimUzzanti

I've been trying to put up with this issue by just bearing it, but, it became very annoying recently when I tried to do some video editing using Davinci Resolve 16.

With a monitor the application was continually hanging along with the touchbar. I had to disconnect the monitor to be able to actually use it.

Has anyone else had issues with Davinci Resolve 16 and an external display on the MPB16?

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

May 19, 2020 9:53 AM in response to jc_9

"I don't get why you and William are so defensive about it. With enough complaints, Apple did put the physical Escape key back on all their latest Macbooks even if it was not an issue per se. Don't you also want Apple to make better products? Why are you downplaying this issue so hard? "

I wasn't being defensive. I was clarifying William's post which you clearly misunderstood, as you clearly misunderstood my post to you. So is that your M.O. ? You just want to keep the computer instead of returning when you have the chance to just so you can complain here? I thought people had work to get done on their computers, so if there's any chance of getting a refund and moving onto what works so you can get your work done that would be the proper solution. That's not downplaying an issue, that's offering a suggestion to help you, whichever way you accept it.

If you think for one minute that ranting on a forum is what changed Apple's mind about the ESC key then you're giving online forums too much credit. People on forums hardly represent the majority of Apple's customers. I'm certain Apple's own employees didn't care for the ESC key being built into the Touch Bar as it did cause issues for people than just forum complainers.

May 19, 2020 10:11 AM in response to RICHD101

For what it's worth thanks to these forum posts I have learned a lot about the specific nature of the issues, Grant specifically pointing out the display port vs HDMI ('heartbeat') issue and another forum poster making the link to navi GPUs having this issue has done a lot more to further my understanding than if it simply wasn't discussed.

It took over a hundred pages to get here but it was well worth the effort (and let's face it a majority of these pages have been wasted on none productive discourse about the veracity of our claims which have been proven in videos, other forum threads and even driver source code).

May 19, 2020 10:14 AM in response to RICHD101

This IS a great place to discuss such issues. No question about that!

However, this is NOT the place that will influence the Movers and Shakers at Apple, Inc. They do not have 'read the forums' in their job descriptions.

What they do have is: look at returned computers, parts replaced at the Genius Bar and depot repair, and outstanding "tickets"/bug-reports. And read Product Feedback.

May 19, 2020 6:42 PM in response to TimUzzanti

I got my Radeon Front side to 49+ watts!

this was during a 3d render in FCPx. Temperature stayed around 72C until it finished and then switched over to the CPU for exporting then the temps rose to 80-90C until it finished.

I think I got it close to maxed out but it looks like it can go further. This was not connected to any external displays - only using the built in screen.

May 20, 2020 7:30 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Hi..... an external GPU does NOT FIX the Problem. I bought one and the problem is not solved.

I solved for me the problem that I put the MacBook into a "Maschine Room" with long Cables. I gave up :-(

The Power is unbelievable good but that MacBook is no good for normal Laptop work.

May 20, 2020 8:06 AM in response to ogmaxx

ogmaxx wrote:

Naw I never leaving it charging all night , I learned the hard way before wit my iPhone .

...

You should NOT think of your MacBook like your iPhone. Their batteries should be treated COMPLETELY differently. The MacBook Pro is a computer that should be connected to AC power whenever AC power is available, and only used on battery when there is no other alternative. It will NEVER over-charge.

In addition, if it is stored overnight or longer with a mostly-discharged battery, long-term battery life can be diminished substantially.

Your MacBook Pro is designed to use (up to) ALL the power from the power adapter AND "borrow" freely from the battery. That is the method that will give top performance. Use of battery only will be at reduced compute-power from what is possible on AC power with a charged battery

May 20, 2020 11:11 AM in response to ogmaxx

Your MacBook Pro is designed to manage its charging sensibly. There are three micro-controllers co-operating to manage the battery, the power adapter, and the charging, so your MacBook Pro will NEVER over-charge.

Many users plug in their MacBook Pro and leave it on their desk, plugged in, for its ENTIRE expected life. No worries. That is how it is meant to be used.

raimiss

Level 1

8 points

May 20, 2020 3:14 PM in response to TimUzzanti

Even though one member of this board is persistent at trying to convince otherwise, but no modern cpu will shut itself down because of heat even if ran without the fan.

Too bad this computer is so heavily broken that sometimes it cannot be used without overheating even for simpliest tasks such as booting.

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise