MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

jc_9 wrote:

So you are fine with thermal throttling reducing the performance of your top of the line laptop..!

Have you verified thermal throttling is indeed occurring?

I haven't seen performance results indicating a system with an external monitor ran say Final Cut Pro slower than when just using the internal monitor.

No need to speculate, the dGPU consumes 18W and therefore increases the temps by 35°C (in my case) . That's the headroom the CPU could have use for higher clock rate while turbo-boosting.

Headroom only matters if throttling is occurring.

Yeah he's like your opposite! (I only mentionned him because he seen a lot of fried logic boards on Macbook Pros.)

True, but you don't know why they are fried; an all too common reason: air vents clogged with fur.

A business that only exists because of the absurd costs of official repairs. Don't you agree that it would be better for everyone to reduce the fail-rate of their high value machines?

It depends on why those machines are actually failing. If machines are overheating, it may not be for the reasons he thinks they are.

Apple has the data, and as much as conspiracy theories about planned obsolescence are fun, if someone's MBP dies they aren't necessarily going to purchase another and I doubt it's worth losing a customer.

I realise Apple doesn't care about this since most people buying their products are ok to spend the extra money for repairs / AppleCare+ anyway. As long as it's got the smallest form factor possible... for a magical experience! I'm fine with that, but not for a pro machine.

Once again, it depends upon the use case.

For example, Apple could design a system like some of the dedicated gaming laptops that might keep their systems even cooler inside, but customers have shown they want sleek and stylish over bulky.

William Kucharski wrote:

You can, but the Discussions software has a bug that makes it more difficult than it should be.

Here's the process:

1) At the top of the page, you will see a black box with a check mark that reads "Following."

2) Click it and you will see it change to a white box reading "Follow."

Here is the important part:

3) Press ⌘R to reload the page, or click the ⟳ icon to reload the web page

4) If the box remains white, you are unsubscribed; if it turns black again, go to step 2.

Note it can take several attempts before this may work (and by several, I mean sixty or more, but it will eventually work.)

OMG - this is going like this for so many months already. Why Apple is not able to fix this essential annoying bug ??

Noisy fans, freezing, overpriced, not able to unsubscribe ... really nice, Apple ...

What's disappointing on this particular case is that Apple never really acknowledged this issue. Despite the fact that so many people raised it with Apple Support including myself.

My personally feel is that Apple knew this internally by now and they are working with AMD sorting out the driver issue. The NAVI Radeon 5000 series had quite some drivers problems even on Windows platform. 5500M drivers on MacOS might get de-prioritised from AMD end. We have to check every single MacOS release to see if the problem goes away.

Also I absolutely agree no point defending this as "normal" behavior. Any normal laptop doesn't behave like this during my past 15 years experience from more than a dozen laptops.

Man denizcan you leave my Apple heart full of dents when you talk like this. But that is okay, it can take a beat. And I am very skeptical about the latest and not so greatest Macbooks.

For the first time in 13 years I don't have ample confidence that current issues will be solved by Apple. Let me explain:

The thing is that by September 2020 I need 3 school + home laptops for my 3 kids. Since 2007 my policy has been to buy top quality and spend top $$$ as they will (a) last twice as long and (b) be easier and more fun to use so more productive.

Very important also: I am the family system admin and my job can be easier if the units "just work".

I never tried the 16" discussed here, but I have tried and sent back to Apple:

1. 4 2020 MacBook Air ($999 model + i5 upgrade): no heat pipe (peculiar design decision) and my kids had blowing fans most of the time using simple apps, especially with google meet
2. 1 2020 MacBook Pro 13" ($1299 base model): same apps, much quieter fan, but (a) still medium loud fan noise with google meet, (b) 3 times a stalled system process caused 100% CPU which also led to fan noise (must be OS issue) and © the 8GB RAM was full constantly leading to 2GB swap file usage -- so 16GB is the new norm for future proof policy

We have a late 2008 Unibody MB, a 2010 Mac Pro w/ 30" ACD, a late 2013 rMBP15" and a 2017 Air, all still going strong and testimony of the above policy. I have been able to hold off any butterfly kb Macs, but now I must decide on 3 new units and choose from the current lineup.

Normally when in doubt I'd choose a last year's model to be safe but the butterfly kb is a no-go. So what do I do? If I buy future proof, it can only be a 2020 MBP 13", preferably the 2.0 (to help counter CPU hunger) with double fan (to better help cool the CPU), 16GB and 4 ports.

For the first time in 13 years I don't have ample confidence that current issues will be solved by Apple. They fail to acknowledge some of their mistakes (missing heat pipe on the 2020 Air, these fan issues on the 16"), they fail to cut their losses for too long and move on (butterfly keyboard) and they don't manage to decently repair their buggy Catalina OS before the next WWDC.

Don't get me wrong - I want to like the new Apple products. Mind you - I am an Apple fan boy, in my family we now use 4 Macs, 7 iPhones, 4 iPads, 1 Apple Watch, we have Apple Music and extended iCloud storage plans. So far my job to admin it all is pretty easy.

I could go Windows route for the new school laptops. But I haven't got a clue what I will get myself into as I have not been taking interest at all in Windows for over a decade.

I think the best thing now is to order 3 new 2020 2.0 MBP 13" units and let the kids test them out before the holiday season starts...

w0203j wrote:

Wait for the long term fix that will come eventually.

w0203j: I really hope it will...

jc_9 wrote:

Every Macbook Pros 16" behave the same way when connected to specific displays.

• Just one monitor plugged in can trigger the dGPU to run in the 18W+ mode.

• In the 18W+ mode, idle temperature never drops below 60°C in a climatised room.

• Some people have success using clamshell + one display at 144hz (or other setups) triggering the low 5W mode.

• It objectively runs hotter and noisier than previous gens with the same setups on idle.

• Apparently using the i7 over the i9 gives you a little more headroom.

I don't see an issue with any of those things.

Plug it in, use it, don't worry about what temps are reported, though I understand the fan noise might be annoying to you.

This unfortunately won't solve the overheating & fan noise issue. I think the issue isn't gpu alone, it's also algorithm for CPU cooling too (or some other chip that has no temperature sensor that would be exposed to istat). Running monitor in modes that get dgpu usage down to 5w helps significantly (100+hz HDMI on freesync or 100+hz DP on gsync), but to really have computer as silent as any previous year, I also need to disable turboboost (which was on for all the previous machines). Without turboboost it's definitely slower than my previous macbook. If turbobooust is on, fans will blast 5500rpm as soon as CPU load gets to just ~20%. Previously it would only start blowing full speed after being 80%+ loaded for some time.

[Edited by Moderator]

Where do you see that the MBP 16 is "not able" to run Zoom or anything else for that matter?

It actually does quite well, but it takes GPU power to do it on an external monitor, which uses power, creating heat, that the fans keep at reasonable limits.

You can argue whether too much heat is created or too much power is used, but to say the machine "can't" run Zoom on a MBP 16 is completely disingenuous, tens of thousands of people do it daily.

William Kucharski wrote:

That doesn't mean the MBP 16 is faulty, it simply means it's handling the task in a way differently than you expect.

If you use a MacBook Air I suspect it can handle it as well, but it's not as capable a machine as the MBP 16, and you won't be playing multiple 4K video streams on the MBA in real time.

So your definition of "better" is based on the parameters you're placing on the system based on your needs, not on the machine's capability.

FWIW, I just played around for a while connecting my MBP 16 to a Dell U2717D via a TB3 to MDP adapter and a MDP cable to the monitor and watched YouTube videos on the external monitor full-screen for twenty minutes.

While the system did get warm, as I would expect it to, the fans never kicked in.

Whether that's because the Dell is only 2560 x 1440 or if it was because of the connection via MDP, I couldn't say.

cool, looks like you have a unique mpb16. because it's like this (this was link on youtube vidoe which shows how it's for me, but moder decide to "link(s) that weren't directly related to the original poster's question") for me . and for many in this discussion.

[Link Edited by Moderator]

"what is interesting is that the new GPU uses HBM2 memory, this type of memory provides higher bandwidth while also utilizing less power.

"LESS POWER""

I don't see anywhere on Apple's explanation of this GPU on their website that is mentions LESS POWER.

William Kucharski wrote:

I had mine playing full-screen HD video from YouTube.

I would expect compiling code to drive the laptop to the point where it has to throttle the CPUs or you're leaving performance on the table.

No temps? No fan speeds?

Do you not know how to display those stats?

I contacted them, went through the process. They kept in touch and were helpful but somehow the performance of my computer slightly improved and they said “hey problem solved”.

What should I do next? Any suggestions?

Thank you for your input.

We don't know if it's Apple or AMD fault, but I can't believe this laptop received the green light while testing the external displays with it. One 1080p monitor in clamshell should not be using 40% of the dGPU TDP at idle.

Going from 60hz to 144hz with one 1080p in clamshell makes the dGPU consumes from 40% to 10% of its TDP, suggesting a software bug.

Apple aknowledged the issue when TimUzzanti, the author of this thread, confirmed it is listed in Apple's system as LOW IMPACT. He also said the only way to raise awareness is to open a support ticket or return the machine referencing this issue.

Or you can convince yourself and others to take the blue pill and live in a magical world where your Macbook Pro 16" is perfect.

Until I see an official response from Apple any member here that says they spoke to Apple and "APPLE SAID" blah blah blah then it's nothing but hearsay. I just love how we're being called liars though in terms of how our Macs are behaving.

If it's an issue for you, that's fine; at idle my laptop is often asleep so it's not warm at all.

It's simply not an area of concern for me.

I have two mono amplifiers for my stereo that are on 24x7 and sit at a constant 118ºF with nothing but soft background music playing, effectively that's their temp at idle, and that's not an issue either.

Interesting is there some cable that can solve the issue, USB-C to DP for example? To be honest another my 2 laptops by HP cost twice the price and has no issues with external display. They work quietly in comparison with MBP