So if the signal drop is caused by the hand physically blocking antennae...

I haven't defended anything or anyone either iSheep, but that doesn't stop you now does it?

Practice what you preach Mr. shining example of class and no name calling or labeling.

If you're referring to me, I only responded the way I did to a certain poster who started the insults and name calling. I unfortunately got caught up in that and also apologized that I did. Then I come here and your tribe of Fanboys does nothing but attack me because I feel Steve Jobs was arrogant at the press conference today. Opening a press conference with a song slamming customers who only want their device to work properly IS arrogance. That set the tone for the rest of the conference.

vidguy7 wrote:

kre62 wrote:

Others have pointed this out, but it bears repeating. The fact that Jobs said that the iphone4 drops "less than one more call per 100" is very telling. He chose his words very wisely. Many interpreted that to mean less than 1% more than the 3GS. However, as others have pointed out, if the 3GS drops 1 call per hundred, and the 4 drops 2 calls per hundred (rounding to an even 1 more per call), its actually a complete doubling of the number of calls dropped, a 100% increase. For a phone that is supposed to get better reception than the 3GS, the fact that they even admitted the 3GS does better is huge.

Message was edited by: kre62

Absolutely! I want to keep repeating this until +every single Kool-Aid drinker here understands this+. Granted, this may take some time, considerable time. The IPhone 4 does NOT get better reception and Mr. Jobs told you that today and has been lying to you prior to this conference. He knew very well that the sheep here would go 'ba ba' and believe anything they were told.

If you still think the 4 gets better reception than the 3GS, then you have no choice but to believe that Mr. Jobs is lying about his STATISTICS. So which lie would you rather challenge, the statistics or the idea that the 3GS gets better reception? I just hope some of the fanboys will finally get it and wake up and see what an utter fiasco this is.

Ok right now I am looking at my iphone 4 bars and I am getting 4 bars here at home where I used to get only 3 with my 3G. Check my video out on how I got my son's 3G (my old phone) to drop service with the death grip. Now this is also after the 4.0.1 update to my 4 and so I should be getting less bars according to Steve but magically I am getting 4 instead of the 3 I had with my 3G. Those are hard facts not some magic you are pulling out of your butt.

audionaut wrote:
and if they refused to return your money I completely see how you have a point.

Oh .. wait....

This is not a software bug or design mistake. The design of the antenna system is intentional. I believe them when they say didn't think it would be a big deal because I didn't and don't. When they announced, months ago, that the metal bands were the antennae and I saw the pictures i highly suspected you could attenuate the signal by bridging the 2 bands but i bought it anyway. It's obvious to me. But let's say it's not to Joe public. YOU CAN TAKE IT BACK.

The only way I can see having a problem with this is either you MUST have an iPhone for some irrational reason, or you're upset because you have to do a little extra work to return it.

One more time. Even if apple lied. Even if they're arrogant. Even if they ran your dog over. You are a consumer, be a responsible one. Return the crap and buy the stuff that works for you.

You nailed it!

Here's one for you. The braking system on your car would perform far better if they drilled a few holes in the rotor. I wonder why no manufacturers do that. I guess you better stop driving your car since we know it's not optimal.

You want my guess? it was an aesthetic choice that simplified the case design. That much seemed obvious to me. You should be asking why they didn't put the split between the antennae on the bottom of the phone instead of the lower side like the split at the top. But then we STILL wouldn't know because we aren't privy to all the research and data. Maybe in their design it HAS to be there, who knows, who cares (well i guess you do).

Point is: the phone exists as a product. You can buy it or not. Apple has designed several products that i've disliked and subsequently didn't purchase. This isn't one of them. If it is for you, why are you railing? Do you think they'll change the phone unless their profits drop off? If so, you're naive.

kre62 wrote:
vidguy i like your enthusiasm but lets be a little more calm as they will just react defensively if directly provoked..

Normally I'd agree kre62, but I'm really upset that apparently NOBODY has picked up on the fact that Jobs lied. I haven't heard from anyone in the media and certainly not anyone here on the forum about the point I've raised. To me, this is the entire crux of the argument and what's at the heart of this entire issue. Steve Jobs claimed the I4 had the best reception ever. He told us today that the 4 drops twice as many calls as the 3GS. So I guess the question an attorney would ask would be: So Mr. Jobs, were you lying today or were you lying prior to today. You can NOT have it both ways.

All of us that had the 3GS and complained on this forum were well aware of this, but we were bullied by this crowd, and often told we were liars and called every name under the sun. Now Jobs has told everyone (inadvertently I'm sure) that it's HE that is the liar.

What also upsets me is that not ONE SINGLE Apple fanboy has the bal_s to look us in the face and say 'you know what, you guys were right, we're sorry'. Instead they continue their bullying tactics like this never happened.

Am I upset? YOU BETCHA! This crowd behaves EXACTLY like Steve Jobs.

audionaut wrote:
Here's one for you. The braking system on your car would perform far better if they drilled a few holes in the rotor. I wonder why no manufacturers do that. I guess you better stop driving your car since we know it's not optimal.

You want my guess? it was an aesthetic choice that simplified the case design. That much seemed obvious to me. You should be asking why they didn't put the split between the antennae on the bottom of the phone instead of the lower side like the split at the top. But then we STILL wouldn't know because we aren't privy to all the research and data. Maybe in their design it HAS to be there, who knows, who cares (well i guess you do).

Point is: the phone exists as a product. You can buy it or not. Apple has designed several products that i've disliked and subsequently didn't purchase. This isn't one of them. If it is for you, why are you railing? Do you think they'll change the phone unless their profits drop off? If so, you're naive.

Let's check those return numbers in about a month. Jobs played a bit of a shell game with the numbers.

vidguy7 wrote:

kre62 wrote:

Others have pointed this out, but it bears repeating. The fact that Jobs said that the iphone4 drops "less than one more call per 100" is very telling. He chose his words very wisely. Many interpreted that to mean less than 1% more than the 3GS. However, as others have pointed out, if the 3GS drops 1 call per hundred, and the 4 drops 2 calls per hundred (rounding to an even 1 more per call), its actually a complete doubling of the number of calls dropped, a 100% increase. For a phone that is supposed to get better reception than the 3GS, the fact that they even admitted the 3GS does better is huge.

Message was edited by: kre62

Absolutely! I want to keep repeating this until +every single Kool-Aid drinker here understands this+. Granted, this may take some time, considerable time. The IPhone 4 does NOT get better reception and Mr. Jobs told you that today and has been lying to you prior to this conference. He knew very well that the sheep here would go 'ba ba' and believe anything they were told.

If you still think the 4 gets better reception than the 3GS, then you have no choice but to believe that Mr. Jobs is lying about his STATISTICS. So which lie would you rather challenge, the statistics or the idea that the 3GS gets better reception? I just hope some of the fanboys will finally get it and wake up and see what an utter fiasco this is.

Have you thought about this fact. Maybe the numbers are higher for a couple of reasons.

1. Over 3 million iphone 4's have been sold in only 22 days. Apparently the signal problem isn't stopping folks from buying them even after this came out.

2. With the story breaking a few weeks ago about the antenna issue and thousands of folks trying it with paper clips like the OP did don't you think there would be more dropped calls?

You guys don't think much do you. The obvious reason is that a lot of folks are trying the death grip and testing it out and with over 3 million iphone 4's out in the wild the number of dropped calls will be higher. Remember AT&T automatically collects the dropped call data so they don't know if you are really on a call or just testing to see if you can get it to drop on purpose. Also since this issue didn't come up with the 3GS when it launched a lot of users were not trying to test the dropped calls out with a death grip like they are now with the iphone 4. THINK next time before you just spout crap off.

kre62 wrote:
Everyone, vidguy, etc, please be more calm and refrain from name calling. I dont want my thread locked over hyper emotion. The less provoking and direct, and the more well thought out and reasoned arguments we present, the more people we will be able to help realize that we are not being given the whole story.

It's not me that's been name-calling. Check the posts as to who is name-calling.

As far as 'thought out, reasoned arguments' are concerned, how could any statement be better reasoned than what I've laid out in terms of the lie that Jobs has been perpetuating until today? It was laid out with nothing but facts and not one of Mr. Job's ilk has responded. None of them has the guts to apologize, not one.

I'm not defending squat Danny boy.

I couldn't care less what is trashed in your book. Why should I?

And I don't need to swing by your neighborhood. I need it to work where I live and the places I frequent most, which it does.

I didn't say your problems aren't real or try to convince you otherwise, but you are trying to convince me that I have a problem where I live and the places I frequent most when I don't.

I have been out doing all this from my iPhone 4 for the last 4 hours.You should get out more - swing by my neighborhood and your iPhone 4 would work just fine.

No, I understood that perfectly. I knew it was you questioning why people would attack CR. I fully agreed with you.

vidguy7 wrote:
He told us today that the 4 drops twice as many calls as the 3GS.

No you are lying now. I watched the video and no where did he say the iphone 4 dropped twice as many calls as the 3GS. Now you are making statistics up to shore up your weak argument.

Message was edited by: KC7GNM
fixed quotes

Message was edited by: KC7GNM

Allan Sampson wrote:
As I said before, your selective watching and listening skills need some work.

Mr. Jobs says he does not know why for sure but he has a pretty good idea which he provided. Watch it again Microsoft Sheep - how does the back end of all those sheep you follow smell?

You did NOT answer the question Allan, instead you do what you and the others of your ilk do best, be vile and condescending. You just can't help yourself.

Read my lips: Jobs said the 4 drops twice as many calls as the 3GS. Prior to today he said the 4 had the best reception. I don't care if he's 'researching' the reasons, the FACT IS HE LIED and he knew he was lying. So you still have not responded.

Your 'retort' denigrating MS has nothing whatever to do with this conversation. Nowhere did I talk about MS. Where did you ever see me singing the praise of MS? WHERE? Stop your crap Allan, you truly are embarrassing yourself.