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Terrible Internet issues, but tests look good...

Currently I have 1gb service into router which is wired to a time capsule and extended via wireless bridge to an AirPort Extreme on the other side of my house.


Have been using this setup without issue for a few years.


The last few days the internet has been terrible, so slow and actually freezing up at times.


A check of the Apple products show a steady green light and no issues listed in airport utility. Speed tests are showing acceptable numbers.


The only thing out of the ordinary is when I am having issues and bring up airport utility, the light next to “internet” is orange. A few seconds later it switches to green. (The time capsule and extreme show a steady green light the whole time).


I have unplugged and plugged back in the router, to no avail.


Much of our house is dependent on internet: garage doors, survalience cameras, thermostats, sprinklers, etc....


Any ideas? (Please explain like I am a 3-5yr old with a learning disability)


Thanks,


jake


Also no settings have been changed prior to or after the issues started.

Posted on Dec 16, 2019 11:37 PM

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Dec 18, 2019 11:52 AM

Thanks.. screenshots make it much much easier to follow.


I took your statement from the first post over literally.


time capsule and extended via wireless bridge to an AirPort Extreme on the other side of my house.


I thought you had an actual wireless bridge. But you have a simple extend wireless which makes more sense.


The Apple routers do not give up their secrets easily.

I would say you do have a problem with the signal loss between the AE and TC. That is why the internet is dropping out. More.. the TC has disappeared I think because the poor wireless connection.

You are using your phone connected to the AE wireless. From the TC it will probably show the AE dropping out.


From your iMac open the airport utility. If you are not seeing the airports change from wireless to ethernet. This is hidden in the most strange place. (This is probably also available in iOS version but I am not sure where. )



Click the icon of the AE.. (I am using an Express to show you)

Hover your mouse pointer over the connection: Unknown

After a second or two a popup menu appears with details of the link.



This is important. Everything connected to the AE which might be connected by ethernet or wireless AC at very high speed.. is then forced down this small pipe. As you can see my Express has joined the Extreme at a speed of 144Mb/s using 2.4ghz N wireless. It has excellent signal and speed but using N wireless it is slow. Hopefully your Extreme is doing a lot better than that. Real world throughput over 144Mb/s will be no more than 70Mb/s and if you are using a wireless client on the Extreme it will halve again down to 35Mb/s (that is bits per sec.. which is how network speeds are measured.. file transfers are measured in Bytes per sec.. 8 bits to a Byte.)

So the primary way to achieve better reliability and performance is to remove the wireless link between the two airports.

That is why in the first post I said use ethernet. This will give you the very best improvement.. especially in a 3 level house where you have lots of ceilings and walls between the routers. Ethernet costs a lot to install.. but it works forevermore, is fast and reliable. Now some houses it is near impossible to install. If that is the case you will do better with mesh wireless products like Netgear Orbi. RBK50 for example which uses a separate high speed wireless link to improve connection speed and latency. The alternative is powerline adapters (also called Ethernet over Power EOP) which are available in various speeds up to 1200 or 1300 and 2000Mb/s (note.. the lies being told in powerline adapters are even bigger than the wireless ones. There is no difference in 1200 and 2000 products, they simply use different chips). These products will give you speeds up to 300Mb/s in real world but can be a lot less. It depends on the power wiring in your house. From my understanding, whereas in the past we recommended powerline as a solution I would now go mesh in most cases.

With Gigabit Internet I would pay the extra and install at least one ethernet connection between your various levels in the house. The improvement is dramatic by using multiple Wireless Access Points, which is how your AE is being used now. The problem is not the size of the house but its construction using multiple levels makes it difficult to get good wireless signals above or below.. but a single point on each level will cover that level very well.


BTW

A 1Gbps internet connection is total luxury from where I live,, a 3rd world backwater called Australia. We only just managed to get 100/40 and it costs so much I will shortly drop back to 50/20.

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4 replies
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Dec 18, 2019 11:52 AM in response to Jakedrob

Thanks.. screenshots make it much much easier to follow.


I took your statement from the first post over literally.


time capsule and extended via wireless bridge to an AirPort Extreme on the other side of my house.


I thought you had an actual wireless bridge. But you have a simple extend wireless which makes more sense.


The Apple routers do not give up their secrets easily.

I would say you do have a problem with the signal loss between the AE and TC. That is why the internet is dropping out. More.. the TC has disappeared I think because the poor wireless connection.

You are using your phone connected to the AE wireless. From the TC it will probably show the AE dropping out.


From your iMac open the airport utility. If you are not seeing the airports change from wireless to ethernet. This is hidden in the most strange place. (This is probably also available in iOS version but I am not sure where. )



Click the icon of the AE.. (I am using an Express to show you)

Hover your mouse pointer over the connection: Unknown

After a second or two a popup menu appears with details of the link.



This is important. Everything connected to the AE which might be connected by ethernet or wireless AC at very high speed.. is then forced down this small pipe. As you can see my Express has joined the Extreme at a speed of 144Mb/s using 2.4ghz N wireless. It has excellent signal and speed but using N wireless it is slow. Hopefully your Extreme is doing a lot better than that. Real world throughput over 144Mb/s will be no more than 70Mb/s and if you are using a wireless client on the Extreme it will halve again down to 35Mb/s (that is bits per sec.. which is how network speeds are measured.. file transfers are measured in Bytes per sec.. 8 bits to a Byte.)

So the primary way to achieve better reliability and performance is to remove the wireless link between the two airports.

That is why in the first post I said use ethernet. This will give you the very best improvement.. especially in a 3 level house where you have lots of ceilings and walls between the routers. Ethernet costs a lot to install.. but it works forevermore, is fast and reliable. Now some houses it is near impossible to install. If that is the case you will do better with mesh wireless products like Netgear Orbi. RBK50 for example which uses a separate high speed wireless link to improve connection speed and latency. The alternative is powerline adapters (also called Ethernet over Power EOP) which are available in various speeds up to 1200 or 1300 and 2000Mb/s (note.. the lies being told in powerline adapters are even bigger than the wireless ones. There is no difference in 1200 and 2000 products, they simply use different chips). These products will give you speeds up to 300Mb/s in real world but can be a lot less. It depends on the power wiring in your house. From my understanding, whereas in the past we recommended powerline as a solution I would now go mesh in most cases.

With Gigabit Internet I would pay the extra and install at least one ethernet connection between your various levels in the house. The improvement is dramatic by using multiple Wireless Access Points, which is how your AE is being used now. The problem is not the size of the house but its construction using multiple levels makes it difficult to get good wireless signals above or below.. but a single point on each level will cover that level very well.


BTW

A 1Gbps internet connection is total luxury from where I live,, a 3rd world backwater called Australia. We only just managed to get 100/40 and it costs so much I will shortly drop back to 50/20.

Dec 17, 2019 3:45 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for the info.


The TC and AE are model “802.11ac” (not sure if that is the correct info that you were asking about?-I am pretty much a rookie when it comes to networking.


Below is the pic of the setup


Shortly after snapping that photo, utility switched to this (pic below)



The 1GB service is actually pretty cheap (I think anyway) I believe it is around 125.00 a month.


If I need to buy new stuff or upgrade, I am fine with that, I just don’t know what I need...??


It is just two of us in the house, but have a decent amount of connections:


2 appletvs

PS4

2 ipads

2 iphones

imac

A/V receiver

Blu-ray player

Surveillance cameras

dashcams

garage doors

thermostat

tv


(I have the important stuff hardwired: iMac, ps4, ATV, etc...)


I am guessing there are some more items I am forgetting.


The house isn’t too big, it is a tri-level maybe 2400sq feet. The TC is located in the AV rack in the lowest level, with the AE on the upper level. I tried moving around the AE and never really noticed much of a difference.


I do need a strong enough signal to reach a detached garage that is 15 feet from the house.


Is there a way to test the TC at all?


Thanks again for the help! I really appreciate it.

Dec 16, 2019 11:56 PM in response to Jakedrob

time capsule and extended via wireless bridge to an AirPort Extreme on the other side of my house.


This is not a formula for high reliability.


You state this worked great for a few years.. well I think it most fortunate.. because most of us have to reboot the entire thing once a week at least.


What is the wireless bridge.. an express is the only thing I can think of that would work.


A screenshot from the airport utility of the whole setup also can help.


What model is the TC and AE??


If this has worked ok a few years you might actually be down to simple life exhaustion.. electronics stuff.. should not wear out if it was made properly.. ie about 50 years ago.. big and heavy and robust.. now cost means you pack everything into an ABS plastic case far too small and know full well heat will destroy it in about 5 years. Same with power supplies. etc.. nothing is built to last.. it is built for economic life.. or being interpreted for 3-5 year olds.. it lasts out the (extended) warranty plus 1 day.


Currently I have 1gb service into router


Lucky ducky!!

Frankly your monthly ISP costs are probably far more than the amortised cost of a completely new router setup.. eg netgear orbi (~$500) which is far superior and far faster and much more robust.. modern mesh .. or even better but expensive.. wiring the house with ethernet is well worth it for speed and reliability.


With 1gb service.. using old Airport products is tying your hands behind your back.. they are not capable of anywhere near that speed. Especially in any sort of wireless extend. Do yourself a favour and wire the place with gigabit ethernet. Nothing comes close even AX wireless.

Terrible Internet issues, but tests look good...

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